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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 26, 2017 2:20:54 GMT
These guys are sure a lot of work putting together! Replacing the spears with copper rods, redoing their legs to not look so static/funky.
But i am not sure how to best mount them to the base. The bases are solid, and im having trouble cutting out the middle segment to glue them in. Any ideas how to do this the best? Also any tips for pinning them to the base?
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Post by chaingun on Dec 26, 2017 9:17:50 GMT
1. Pinning to the base: I usually drill holes in two horses' legs then take a paper clip, bend it U shape and insert it into the holes I created, coating the clip with quick glue. Finally, I use an epoxy compound to hold the U firmly to the base. 2. Replacing the spears: My Uhlans use the original spears. They did not bend in the last 10 years.
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Post by shortsleeve on Dec 26, 2017 12:10:25 GMT
i use magnet for the lance they are so long they can mess up with the rest of the army
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 26, 2017 15:46:10 GMT
If you're talking about cutting the tab off the model's feet: use clippers.
If you're talking about cutting a slot into the base for the tab: don't do that, cut the tab off and pin the model to the base, like Chaingun said.
I assume you have hobby clippers and a pin vice with a 1mm drill bit?
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 26, 2017 17:39:25 GMT
Thanks for the advice! I have plenty of pinning equipment. Im going to try the method chaingun suggested. I had been trying to dig out out the middle slot of the base, took almost half an hour to get one done. Sounds like his way will be a bit more sturdy, as with just the slot they are quite wobbly.
My spears came pretty bent, and they remind me a lot of my metal IFP. Whom i cannot transport without bending their spears.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2017 5:31:47 GMT
Half an hour? Hmm, are you using a fresh blade in your hobby knife? Anyway, pinning and supporting the pin with epoxy in the base should be more robust, I always pin metal models to their bases myself.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Dec 27, 2017 6:20:54 GMT
The older plastic 50mm bases with the flatter top area were pretty easy to cut through with an Exacto blade and a bad attitude. The newer 50mm bases with the more pebble-looking finish in the top circle is thicker in that slot area and are not easy to cut out.
I personally cut the slots and used the tabs under the hooves, but then again my 10 Uhlans are older and had older bases. I never bothered pinning the un-tabbed hooves to the base because a moderate amount of super-glue should be sufficient to hold the horse to the base with normal use. If you are handling you Uhlans rougher than what I would consider "normal" I would suggest *NOT* pinning the hooves. Whenever you design a machine you always design the easiest / cheapest piece to replace to fail / break before anything else. (Cotter pins, set screws, etc.) I would rather glue a model back onto a base than to have to buy a new Uhlan because a leg or lance broke.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2017 6:49:17 GMT
The older plastic 50mm bases with the flatter top area were pretty easy to cut through with an Exacto blade and a bad attitude. The newer 50mm bases with the more pebble-looking finish in the top circle is thicker in that slot area and are not easy to cut out. I personally cut the slots and used the tabs under the hooves, but then again my 10 Uhlans are older and had older bases. I never bothered pinning the un-tabbed hooves to the base because a moderate amount of super-glue should be sufficient to hold the horse to the base with normal use. If you are handling you Uhlans rougher than what I would consider "normal" I would suggest *NOT* pinning the hooves. Whenever you design a machine you always design the easiest / cheapest piece to replace to fail / break before anything else. (Cotter pins, set screws, etc.) I would rather glue a model back onto a base than to have to buy a new Uhlan because a leg or lance broke. Have you ever had a pinned model break it's leg or something like that? I'm just wondering where you got the idea that pinning a model to it's base is somehow worse that just gluing it, as it seems counter-intuitive to me. I'm not an expert or anything, but I suspect that if a model is pinned well, then any impact that would somehow destroy the pin/pinned part/whatever would most likely have done just as much damage even if the model wasn't pinned (I'm speaking in general here, not just about Uhlans or horses). Meanwhile there's a "band" of abuse where a model that's glued to it's base might come loose (requiring it be glued back, the paint repaired, etc) where a pinned one would not. Obviously depends on a multitude of factors such as the area of the connection, the smallest cross-sectional area of the legs, how well it's pinned or glued, what kind of glue was used, etc, but, you know, generally speaking. To be a bit more specific, I always pin through the weakest part of the legs (ankles, whatever) and try to make sure the pins reach a nice solid part of the model. I use very strong 0.8mm glass-headed tailor pins: they are the toughest pins I've found, much stronger than paperclips which are designed to bend. I'm pretty sure than many of my models (eg. Eliminators, with their skinny ankles) are much less likely to suffer damage than just a glued one because the most vulnerable part of the model has been reinforced with steel.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Dec 27, 2017 7:31:24 GMT
The older plastic 50mm bases with the flatter top area were pretty easy to cut through with an Exacto blade and a bad attitude. The newer 50mm bases with the more pebble-looking finish in the top circle is thicker in that slot area and are not easy to cut out. I personally cut the slots and used the tabs under the hooves, but then again my 10 Uhlans are older and had older bases. I never bothered pinning the un-tabbed hooves to the base because a moderate amount of super-glue should be sufficient to hold the horse to the base with normal use. If you are handling you Uhlans rougher than what I would consider "normal" I would suggest *NOT* pinning the hooves. Whenever you design a machine you always design the easiest / cheapest piece to replace to fail / break before anything else. (Cotter pins, set screws, etc.) I would rather glue a model back onto a base than to have to buy a new Uhlan because a leg or lance broke. Have you ever had a pinned model break it's leg or something like that? I'm just wondering where you got the idea that pinning a model to it's base is somehow worse that just gluing it, as it seems counter-intuitive to me. I'm not an expert or anything, but I suspect that if a model is pinned well, then any impact that would somehow destroy the pin/pinned part/whatever would most likely have done just as much damage even if the model wasn't pinned (I'm speaking in general here, not just about Uhlans or horses). Meanwhile there's a "band" of abuse where a model that's glued to it's base might come loose (requiring it be glued back, the paint repaired, etc) where a pinned one would not. Obviously depends on a multitude of factors such as the area of the connection, the smallest cross-sectional area of the legs, how well it's pinned or glued, what kind of glue was used, etc, but, you know, generally speaking. To be a bit more specific, I always pin through the weakest part of the legs (ankles, whatever) and try to make sure the pins reach a nice solid part of the model. I use very strong 0.8mm glass-headed tailor pins: they are the toughest pins I've found, much stronger than paperclips which are designed to bend. I'm pretty sure than many of my models (eg. Eliminators, with their skinny ankles) are much less likely to suffer damage than just a glued one because the most vulnerable part of the model has been reinforced with steel. I've always used pinning as a method for increasing the strength of a glue joint where the original design of the joint is not good enough to handle the loads that are going to be placed upon it with typical handling. Hip joints (like the left hip of the old Behemoth) and shoulder / elbow joints for heavy arms that have a shallow ball & socket glue joint are excellent candidates. In these cases pinning allows you to change the geometry of the joint and spread the stress over a larger area so that you are not constantly overcoming the adhesive grip (or shear strength) of the super glue holding the joint together. The problem with pewter is that it is very ductile, plus it quickly and easily fatigues (and breaks) with repeated stress. Brass and mild steel have a higher tensile strength, so if you roughly handle your miniatures that stress is going to strain weaker pewter areas long before the pinned areas. So, no, I've never had a horse leg break, but I am too lazy to reinforce them either. If I have a miniature that has a lot of parts, and I am worried about it breaking with handling, I will selectively pin certain weak joints that would be problematic to repair and leave the easier ones unpinned - if it breaks, it breaks where I want it to break. Going back to the Uhlans, if you pin the hooves to the base then that joint will be stronger than the ankles. With repeated rough handling I fear that the ankles will start to fatigue and eventually break. I would rather have the glue joint holding the hooves to the base fail, which is merely a pain in the ass to re-glue, than to fatigue the ankles, which would cost me a $12 Uhlan horse body from the online store. But that's just me, pin those hooves to the base if you want to.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2017 8:53:26 GMT
I've always used pinning as a method for increasing the strength of a glue joint where the original design of the joint is not good enough to handle the loads that are going to be placed upon it with typical handling. Hip joints (like the left hip of the old Behemoth) and shoulder / elbow joints for heavy arms that have a shallow ball & socket glue joint are excellent candidates. In these cases pinning allows you to change the geometry of the joint and spread the stress over a larger area so that you are not constantly overcoming the adhesive grip (or shear strength) of the super glue holding the joint together. Ah, so we're on the same page there. Going back to the Uhlans, if you pin the hooves to the base then that joint will be stronger than the ankles. With repeated rough handling I fear that the ankles will start to fatigue and eventually break. I would rather have the glue joint holding the hooves to the base fail, which is merely a pain in the ass to re-glue, than to fatigue the ankles, which would cost me a $12 Uhlan horse body from the online store. I guess I just assumed the pin would pass through the ankles, thus reinforcing them and, as stated, preventing both the ankles from snapping and the hooves from tearing off the base. That's how I pin horses anyway. I guess it wasn't explicitly stated either way in the conversation thus far.
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 27, 2017 9:17:13 GMT
I didn't actually need to pin any of my Uhlans, does that make me a bad person?
Granted, I haven't actually glued the lances on. Due to having to remove them 9/10 games.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2017 10:21:47 GMT
Invisible lances, the latest Greylord innovation! They'll never see them coming!
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Post by lovehugs on Dec 27, 2017 12:48:35 GMT
Invisible lances, the latest Greylord innovation! They'll never see them coming! When you put a proxy base down is also become invisible horse.
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 27, 2017 15:04:34 GMT
Invisible lances, the latest Greylord innovation! They'll never see them coming! When you put a proxy base down is also become invisible horse. Strakhov casts Occultation. *Removes models from board.*
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Post by Blargaliscious on Dec 27, 2017 19:56:31 GMT
Going back to the Uhlans, if you pin the hooves to the base then that joint will be stronger than the ankles. With repeated rough handling I fear that the ankles will start to fatigue and eventually break. I would rather have the glue joint holding the hooves to the base fail, which is merely a pain in the ass to re-glue, than to fatigue the ankles, which would cost me a $12 Uhlan horse body from the online store. I guess I just assumed the pin would pass through the ankles, thus reinforcing them and, as stated, preventing both the ankles from snapping and the hooves from tearing off the base. That's how I pin horses anyway. I guess it wasn't explicitly stated either way in the conversation thus far. OK, so you drill the hole extra deep into hooves and get into the ankle - that's good. Now you have pushed the weak spot above the ankles up into lower legs. If you are a masochist you could do drill boring on a miniature scale and drill a shaft for a steel pin up into the knees - but at that point you are paying your "pain in the ass time" from re-gluing the horse back onto the base forward. This isn't to you, Soul Samurai, but to everyone else: do whatever you want regarding getting your horses onto their bases. As long as they look good, can tolerate normal handling, and you're happy with the results - go nuts. My only concern with pinning the hooves to the base is that the joint might be so strong that the legs will break instead of the glue joint in rough handling or an accident. I'm just encouraging people to design in their weak spots when they assemble the miniature.
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