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Post by Uruk on Dec 24, 2017 7:57:04 GMT
Hi people, I'm seeking for advice about SoTN and northkin models; I simply love them but I find them pretty tricky to be played. Here are my thoughts so far:
Ice Troll: Gunny with them could make crit stationary work better and fixes a bit their low rat; gives them snipe and with rage and winter magic they become pretty impressive imho. Winter Troll: God I love the new resculpt, but I really can't find a reason to play these guys Basher: not so bad, nice mat fixer and good crit hit eventually GK: I like this guy, pow 16 gun with reload and a nice animus, same as ice troll, I think that gunny can make it work pretty good. Rok: I love this drunken troll, really I'd like to put it in every list HHH: amazing sculpt, but really I can't get how to play it and how to make it fit in a list Bears: I really dig these guys, they force the opponent to stay in the middle of the table making easier to have the whole list under stone aura, and they hit like a truck Fire Eaters: like them, but I find that the pyre+whelps combo is really too much expensive, can the pyg just set them on fire efficiently? Raiders: ok, how the hell I should epect from them? how I can play them? Shaman: I like this guy, has pretty much anything I want, even if I'd rarely use battle wizard Valka: one man army, even if I find tricky to use countercharge
So far this is my experience (pretty short honestly), I'd like to know how you play northink models and SoTN theme and your experience on tables
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Post by Trollock on Dec 25, 2017 21:51:43 GMT
Hi there. Here are some comments in regard to what you wrote. Ice Troll: The thing about it is that this guy does not need any support. Gunny will allow you to not spend one fury to boost to hit, but he CAN easily boost both hit and damage every turn and be pretty damned efficient. It is really nice to have a light that can be slipped in any list basically and do work, and for 9 points i think he is very reasonable. In PoD you can give him access to puppet strings easily enough, and then you can fish for crits by re-rolling even the attacks that hit if they do not crit. I do not thing you should spend your caster trying to support this guy, but if you go for a small BG, he will always be a solid choice i think. Winter troll: With Doomy 3, Ragnor and Borka 2 he can become really hard to kill, and his animus becomes very relevant. His animus is hilarious in combination with counter charge. If one of these guys charges next to a heavy that was planning on killing something else, the opponent can easily go in to panic mode. And if Borka 2 is suddenly next to 2 heavies with high DEF It is a total nightmare. He is not great i agree, but he has pathfinder and will never be totally irrelevant. He has a place every here and there. Basher: Grissel 1 beast brick seems like a fine place for him. Madrak 2 with Rök he can become MAT 8-9 with a 1" reach. That is decent for the feat. Not my favorite beast though. Against High DEF he is great, and if he can stagger a colossal, you are dandy. GK: RAT 6 and POW 16 is WAY better than the natural RAT 5 POW 14. He is legit. No need for Rage with him either imo. Rök: I too like him more and more. I HATE primal due to the frenzy restriction, but i find myself building battle groups such as Rök + Bomber or Rök + Brawler and i think they have a lot of merit. Bringing beasts like the Mauler that do not benefit from the +1 SPD on the stone feels sub optimal in many cases. HHH: Awesome in theory, but really expensive for how little work it does. It is not great against infantry and does little against heavies. +1 to hit is nice in theory, but i think you need to bring things like a NK battle group to really benefit. Most other things get by with a fell caller. I have a hard time fitting it in lists, but ill still buy it and keep trying for sure. Bears: Have only really played them with Jarl, and given them 0 support. They are still absolutely bonkers. They sort of define the theme imo. A SotN list with no bears better have a damned good reason for not bringing them. FEs: Pyre + whelp is a waste of points. by angling one FE you can have the Pyre be in the front arc. Then he needs to roll an 8 to hit and rolls dice-7 (or -9) for damage. No need to waste a perfectly good whelp imo. They do great work even without the pyre (especially if you have the HHH) though. You can always have one of them try and light the other two on fire when assaulting. Or have one unit light up the other. Only bring the Pyre troll if you have another reason for it (such as playing a GK and still wanting a second beast for transfers while getting 3 free solos, or playing Borka 2 and wanting to punch things with the animus) Raiders: I see them as fast melee troops, that happen to shoot when they kill something. They are great for jamming and being in the way. They pack a bit of punch in melee too, and have great defensive stats (13/14 + stone is way better than most other infantry). With Grim 2 or gunnbjorn their role changes and they could be an actual ranged unit that happens to punch hard. Same with Grissel 2, where they and a HHH can kill a heavy at range without sweating it if she knocks one down. Usually not worth building a list around them i think. They are great generalists though. They soak attacks, contest and kill some infantry and arent super expensive. Not super cheap either, but decent over all. Shaman: I think he works way better in PoD. I still havent included him in many SotN lists. He is a bad choice for a free solo (more expensive guys are usually better) and im not paying 4 points for that guy. If i had the HHH and NK elder, he would perhaps be worth his 4 points, but then i do not think i can spare 4 points for a combat solo when spending 18 points on a HHH to support things. Valka: Almost never use him. My first two free options will be Fell Caller and Runebearer usually. Then it is usually Skaldi. There are some exceptions, but he sees way less play than one might think due to the other free options being more important, and i very rarely pay for options that could be free. Might be a bad rule of thumb, but i do not think so. I super in to the NK stuff atm. Jarl is really good in that theme, and he is way more fun to play than one might think, but basically any caster can play the theme well. There is so much territory to explore!
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Post by macmac on Dec 26, 2017 15:07:25 GMT
I´m so into the northkin, words can not describe.
Ice troll: Cheap, self sufficient but his damage output might not be the best. Like him on paper, have not tried him though.
Basher:
Cheap, good punch for it`s points and is expendable.
GK:
Great with borka and the theme. Shoots and hits like a truck.
Rök:
A lot of points but holy cheeseballs does he hit hard. A world ender.
Bears:
Played them two times without support and they made short work of everything they touched. REALLY good unit. They will die every game, but they will not go out alone.
Raiders:
They have had a hard time hitting infantry for me, but when they did hit they did a good job. I just find it hard to make tough saves.
Valka:
Love him on paper but have died really early, every time. 6 points feels a bit steep and delivering him cost fury you might wanna have elsewhere.
All and all, I love the theme, love the models. I just want to try more of them together as I usually play 50pts, but to this day they are undefeated. =)
Anyone that can give me some tips or insight how to play the raiders? And has anyone tried two bear units? How did that work out?
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Dec 26, 2017 19:00:26 GMT
Raiders really benefit from the HHH’s +1 to attack rolls and oil. They seem to be made for each other. I think they’ll be better once that comes out.
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Post by Uruk on Dec 26, 2017 20:13:22 GMT
Trollock Agree, there is a whole world to discover (and that's even more true for me!) I'm trying to figure out which caster suits better the theme; currently I'm running Madrak1 (even if I know he's by far better in BoH) but still I like him in SoTN. I'm considering also Horgle2 with bomber,2x pyre,2x Fire Eaters,HHH for a gunline, maybe a unit of raiders+sorcerer wouldn't be bad. macmac I love Valka with Madrak1, CC through a wall of champions is great
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 26, 2017 20:36:15 GMT
HHH: Awesome in theory, but really expensive for how little work it does. It is not great against infantry and does little against heavies. +1 to hit is nice in theory, but i think you need to bring things like a NK battle group to really benefit. Most other things get by with a fell caller. I have a hard time fitting it in lists, but ill still buy it and keep trying for sure. The Hooch Hauler is awesome with Grim1. His feat is fantastic allowing you to get two turns of work done due to the no charging and Def reduction. Also casting Return Fire on it every turn gives the opponent an incentive not to shoot it, although if they do they could end up losing a lot of models on their turn due to the spray/aoe. Also an assaulting heavy may find it gets knocked down from the mount before its charge attack. Return Fire is not triggered on the first ranged attack against it so you can hold it for when it will be most useful.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Dec 26, 2017 23:04:07 GMT
To clarify, I am not planning on buying HHH or raiders at the moment. Too many other things that make it into several lists. The problem with those two things specifically is that I feel like they need each other, and they’re both really expensive.
When they were an alternative to the pyre troll to light up the FEs I loved them. Crit fire was a huge blow to these guys.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Dec 27, 2017 2:19:21 GMT
I'm thinking that raiders, the HHH, and Borka2 go together really, really well. I'm having too much fun playing the scenario game with Jarl in Storm to mess with it right now, though.
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Post by Uruk on Dec 27, 2017 18:06:10 GMT
And has anyone tried two bear units? How did that work out? I did and one unit is great; two are better imho. They can be a real hook in the ribs and two units threaten better than one
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Dec 27, 2017 21:15:59 GMT
My buddy has played cygnar into my double bear list three times now, and lost all three. The bears take quality attacks to kill, so they are an amazing tempo aid when they come in, even if they just run to engage from behind, your opponent will have to deal with them. At this point I consider them auto-include in storm just like the northkin elder.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Dec 27, 2017 22:22:11 GMT
Has everyone in this thread forgotten about the Dire Troll Brawler?
He's the first non-character heavy we've got with a P+S above 16, so he can actually threaten other heavies without rage. I'd love to pair one up with Ragnor. P+S 19 retaliatory strike while under Ragnor's feat would be a stellar way to take the alpha. Plus he ignores shields.
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Post by Dorgren on Dec 28, 2017 20:20:06 GMT
My buddy has played cygnar into my double bear list three times now, and lost all three. The bears take quality attacks to kill, so they are an amazing tempo aid when they come in, even if they just run to engage from behind, your opponent will have to deal with them. At this point I consider them auto-include in storm just like the northkin elder. Just played a game last night against Cygnar. Double bears came in on the flanks top of turn 2. He lost his express team on one flank and a bunch of commandos on the other on my turn. He sent his Avenger to deal with one unit of bears on the bottom of turn two and managed to give one bear a bruise, he ignored the other unit, choosing to address the unit of Champs in front of him instead. Top of turn 3. Avenger gets murdered by the bears and my other unit chews into the commandos harder. If I hadn't gotten stupid and charged a Stryker 3 base to base with ol' rowdy with Gris2 and flubbing 3 boosted attack rolls I would have gotten him on attrition. Bottom Line.. BEARS!
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Dec 29, 2017 19:40:09 GMT
Has everyone in this thread forgotten about the Dire Troll Brawler? He's the first non-character heavy we've got with a P+S above 16, so he can actually threaten other heavies without rage. I'd love to pair one up with Ragnor. P+S 19 retaliatory strike while under Ragnor's feat would be a stellar way to take the alpha. Plus he ignores shields. I had one kill a skin n moans and leave another on 5 boxes the other night. This was only with the help of Calandra's feat. They weren't maxed out on armor but both at 19 so -2.
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