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Post by davycannonhound on Dec 22, 2017 21:58:08 GMT
Giving thought to our Gargantuan's lackluster animi, I turned to the Archangel. There's already plenty of suggestions for the Blightbringer (and I don't have any new ideas to add to that thread), but there's been fairly limited discussion on the Archangel. I remember someone suggesting an animus as follows: Tail wind - COST 1, RNG Self. Friendly Faction models within 5" of this model and in it's back arc gain +1 speed. However, I got to thinking, what if the animus were flipped? Hurricane - COST 1, RNG Self. Enemy models within 10" of this model's front arc lose -1 speed. or Hurricane - COST 2, RNG Self. Enemy models within 5" of this model's front arc cannot advance past this model. or Hurricane - COST 1, RNG Self. Enemy models within 10" of this model's front arc lose Flight. or (as suggested by chillychinaman ) Hurricane - COST 2, RNG Self. Enemy models within 5" of this model cannot charge or make power attacks. Anyways, let me know what you guys think!
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Post by chillychinaman on Dec 22, 2017 23:34:20 GMT
I started thread a while back that dabbled a bit on it.
The ideas I liked were: -::Slipstream -::+1" movement to models activating in CMD -::Wind Ravager
I like Hurricanes 1&2. #3 is too niche and about the same power level as its current one.
As a modification of Hurricane2, what about forbidding model from charging or power attacking into CMD?
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Post by davycannonhound on Dec 23, 2017 1:07:01 GMT
I started thread a while back that dabbled a bit on it. The ideas I liked were: -::Slipstream -::+1" movement to models activating in CMD -::Wind Ravager I like Hurricanes 1&2. #3 is too niche and about the same power level as its current one. As a modification of Hurricane2, what about forbidding model from charging or power attacking into CMD? Ah my bad, didn't see it. Thats true. Power attacks may be too broad, but no charges or slams could be interesting.
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Post by copperflame on Jan 2, 2018 15:10:01 GMT
What about an animus that gave a +2 Def against ranged attacks within 5"? Is that too close to the BB? Would that make casters too powerful? Probably...
A 'mega' slipstream would be too powerful - "up to X models can be placed"?
What about an animus like... "any model directly hit by the spellcaster's ranged attacks can not make ranged attacks. This effect lasts until the end of turn"?
I like the +movement or the ability to take away flight as well.
Spitballing one last idea here... what if AA had an ability that "any model within CMD and affected by Continuous Fire, suffers -2 Armor"?
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jan 2, 2018 15:44:17 GMT
I think with its speed and repo and gun and strong melee, they intend for this model to harass from a distance until it can change in and wreck face. So it needs something to help keep it alive while at that distance until it closes, or possibly something to help it close in the first place (since it's giant base is very easy to block it's intended targets).
With repo and SPD and gun, it pretty much can stay out of the threat of most charge ranges. But with its bad defenses, it will often get out-shot, and unlike the rest of Legion, it can't hide behind terrain. So I'd do a variation on the Dessert Hydra's Sandstorm animus:
Firestorm (cost 2): Ranged attacks targeting a model within 4" of this model suffer -3 range. Non-faction models currently within 4" of this model suffer the fire continuous effect.
This would continue to emphasize positioning, which with its high SPD and repo it can clearly make good use of. It also keeps the (probably desired) fluff of "lighting everything on fire".
Also, really, it should have just regular continuous fire on its breath weapon, but that's another discussion...
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Post by davycannonhound on Jan 2, 2018 21:06:20 GMT
Spitballing one last idea here... what if AA had an ability that "any model within CMD and affected by Continuous Fire, suffers -2 Armor"? That last one seems interesting, but outside of two characters Legion lacks any reliable continuous fire effects (minions don't count, IMO).
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Post by davycannonhound on Jan 2, 2018 21:10:14 GMT
Firestorm (cost 2): Ranged attacks targeting a model within 4" of this model suffer -3 range. Non-faction models currently within 4" of this model suffer the fire continuous effect. This would continue to emphasize positioning, which with its high SPD and repo it can clearly make good use of. It also keeps the (probably desired) fluff of "lighting everything on fire". Also, really, it should have just regular continuous fire on its breath weapon, but that's another discussion... Firestorm seems like too much of a copy and paste to me (as well as being weaker). Perhaps its animus gives it continuous fire on its ranged weapons? Like a cost 1? I don't think that would be too broken with any warlocks (namely lylltyh). But, to your point of positioning, Tailwind that gave friendly models +1 speed would be very friendly to its repo ability, I think. It wouldn't help survivability, but then again, its got pretty high DEF for a Garg. A spitball here... What if it had an animus that gave it elevation? I mean, its a giant dragonoid, so it should be able to at least hover in the air...
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Post by copperflame on Jan 2, 2018 22:11:36 GMT
I thought AA had Continuous Fire on its breath weapon - why doesn't it have continuous fire on its breath weapon? But still, as far as what makes it more competitive, it may not be what it really needs (longer range?)
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jan 3, 2018 2:40:45 GMT
Firestorm (cost 2): Ranged attacks targeting a model within 4" of this model suffer -3 range. Non-faction models currently within 4" of this model suffer the fire continuous effect. This would continue to emphasize positioning, which with its high SPD and repo it can clearly make good use of. It also keeps the (probably desired) fluff of "lighting everything on fire". Also, really, it should have just regular continuous fire on its breath weapon, but that's another discussion... Firestorm seems like too much of a copy and paste to me (as well as being weaker). Perhaps its animus gives it continuous fire on its ranged weapons? Like a cost 1? I don't think that would be too broken with any warlocks (namely lylltyh). But, to your point of positioning, Tailwind that gave friendly models +1 speed would be very friendly to its repo ability, I think. It wouldn't help survivability, but then again, its got pretty high DEF for a Garg. A spitball here... What if it had an animus that gave it elevation? I mean, its a giant dragonoid, so it should be able to at least hover in the air... Def 11 isn't high for anything. It is trivially hit by any credible threat. Even under Forced Evolution it would still die to any decent shooting, and certainly it's own "for its point cost anemic" shooting wouldn't make up for the damage it is taking in return fire.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jan 3, 2018 17:21:57 GMT
On the topic of anemic shooting. Would a wing buffet(the verb not the noun), either as another ranged attack or as an animus that slams or pushes enemy models in a range, spray, or radius away be good? Similar to a "super slipstream," this could be like a "super repulsion."
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Post by davycannonhound on Jan 3, 2018 19:32:04 GMT
Firestorm seems like too much of a copy and paste to me (as well as being weaker). Perhaps its animus gives it continuous fire on its ranged weapons? Like a cost 1? I don't think that would be too broken with any warlocks (namely lylltyh). But, to your point of positioning, Tailwind that gave friendly models +1 speed would be very friendly to its repo ability, I think. It wouldn't help survivability, but then again, its got pretty high DEF for a Garg. A spitball here... What if it had an animus that gave it elevation? I mean, its a giant dragonoid, so it should be able to at least hover in the air... Def 11 isn't high for anything. It is trivially hit by any credible threat. Even under Forced Evolution it would still die to any decent shooting, and certainly it's own "for its point cost anemic" shooting wouldn't make up for the damage it is taking in return fire. I specifically said "for a gargantuan". The only garg/collosal that I'm aware of that has higher defense is the storm raptor, and it beats the archangel by one point.
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Post by davycannonhound on Jan 3, 2018 19:32:51 GMT
On the topic of anemic shooting. Would a wing buffet(the verb not the noun), either as another ranged attack or as an animus that slams or pushes enemy models in a range, spray, or radius away be good? Similar to a "super slipstream," this could be like a "super repulsion." I like the idea of an animus that basically lets you choose between repulsion and attractor.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jan 3, 2018 20:17:13 GMT
Def 11 isn't high for anything. It is trivially hit by any credible threat. Even under Forced Evolution it would still die to any decent shooting, and certainly it's own "for its point cost anemic" shooting wouldn't make up for the damage it is taking in return fire. I specifically said "for a gargantuan". The only garg/collosal that I'm aware of that has higher defense is the storm raptor, and it beats the archangel by one point. I mean, sure? The difference between def 11 and 1 is almost negligible, especially since the few things that might not hit Def 11 would never be a threat to it anyway. It matters only for Fyanna2 and Abby1, and even for them, it is a mistake to bank more than a third of your army's survival on the Def 13-14 they might have. My point being, def 11 on a gargantua is really no better than Def 11 on anything else. Anything that is going to attack it is going to hit it. It's like being the world's tallest midget: what good does that do you? You're still a midget.
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