Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Jan 3, 2018 0:21:53 GMT
What makes you say that? UAs for the heavy infantry, cinerator solo, A new horse to add to vengers (they've been loving these lately), exemplar deliverers.....I see plenty of options for expansion into the exemplar.
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Jan 3, 2018 1:57:21 GMT
Mostly because they told us when the theme dropped that they will be expanding it later, and specified new scrutator releases. While I def could see some more exemplar models, the tone I got was that the scrutator section was gonna get a big expansion.
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Jan 3, 2018 2:31:40 GMT
Oh. I'm at once curious and apprehensive: while I'd love to see what they're thinking, I've found in exemplar themes that more support is less effective than simply more exemplars a lot of times.
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Jan 3, 2018 3:06:55 GMT
I'm hopping the new releases comes with a buff to the theme allowing scrutator model\units helping the free points.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Jan 3, 2018 3:16:21 GMT
Oh. I'm at once curious and apprehensive: while I'd love to see what they're thinking, I've found in exemplar themes that more support is less effective than simply more exemplars a lot of times. I’m guessing the support will be more spell casting based. It would be pretty awesome if the Exemplar got a scrutator solo that gave a defensive or offensive buff in a bubble. The thought of exemplars woth rockets is hilarious but not exactly thematic haha. I would love to see us get a UA for cinerators or a character Venger solo though. I think overall if they fix bastions and cinerators we have a very well rounded out core of infantry for the Exemplar. Lots of hard hitting Weaponmasters that are difficult enough to remove. Adding in a support spellcasting unit through scrutators (adding “guns” to the list) or just opening up room for list building by buffing the Exemplar in some way could really diversify the theme. I have pretty decent expectations for this release. We may even get a new warcaster our of it and potentially a Lewis’s 2 rework which I would love. Kreos2 actually supporting and running a blob of Exemplar seems awesome.
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jan 3, 2018 13:04:59 GMT
Kreoss2 definitely needs a rework. Literally any list I make with him, I look at and say "Why not Vindy/ToM/HR etc?"
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Jan 3, 2018 13:43:21 GMT
the deliverers were a jab at the trencher long gunners. For new units I'd rather have a caster attachment for the theme.
As is, while kreoss doesn't help much I'm not sure what they could give him. Even if they keep his feat(which I want), keep tactician, castigate is cool, and change everything else, I can't see what they'd give him that has better delivery than Vindictus.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Jan 3, 2018 13:52:09 GMT
the deliverers were a jab at the trencher long gunners. For new units I'd rather have a caster attachment for the theme. As is, while kreoss doesn't help much I'm not sure what they could give him. Even if they keep his feat(which I want), keep tactician, castigate is cool, and change everything else, I can't see what they'd give him that has better delivery than Vindictus. He doesnt need better delivery vis a vis Vindictus per se, just a bit more defensive tech or some speed tech to move closer to Vinnie. Kreoss has the accuracy and hard hitting buff that makes him more valuable than Vinnie, assuming they even survive. For example, change his arm buff to be a bubble around him, or give him Gastone2's new shield guard spell!
|
|
|
Post by correlion on Jan 3, 2018 14:12:55 GMT
or maybe 2nd spell from the same list? +3 arm and tough on KE will be nice)
|
|
|
Post by W0lfBane on Jan 3, 2018 15:47:16 GMT
or maybe 2nd spell from the same list? +3 arm and tough on KE will be nice) +3 arm spell in protectorate. The devoured cultists will come out of the woodwork and cry OP But I actually like that idea.
|
|
|
Post by correlion on Jan 3, 2018 16:23:15 GMT
such spell can give good synergy between Cinerators and Vessel of Judgement
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jan 3, 2018 18:32:09 GMT
the deliverers were a jab at the trencher long gunners. For new units I'd rather have a caster attachment for the theme. As is, while kreoss doesn't help much I'm not sure what they could give him. Even if they keep his feat(which I want), keep tactician, castigate is cool, and change everything else, I can't see what they'd give him that has better delivery than Vindictus. They cut away too much personal power for one. Give him back his AP attack for starters. Due used to be one of our strongest hitters, but even that's no longer true. Second, maybe give him MAT8? He's all melee, all the time, and an upkeep bot. His whole game is pushing upfield and going for a big feat turn - he has little kit for anything else - at least make it worthwhile to get him in threat range. Third, take a note from Sevy1, or his prior MKI/II incarnations, and give him more innate abilities, or elite cadre. He lost Aegis. And the Elite Cadre Aegis. Why? If we can't have that, what about a CTRL area, or even CMD area, Pathfinder for exemplars? Because he struggles with terrain and terrain is a huge part of SR2017 and that is highly likely to continue. This is why Vindy is almost always a better option - he fixes what KE need fixed, whereas Kreoss does nothing to shore them up, just doubles down on their strengths. But that does nothing to actually deliver his force. Same with ToM, who can at least feat them out of terrain. Invioable Resolve is solid, but Sacrosanct is very dicey. It's often damned near useless. And IR is a poor substitute for, say, Vindy's feat. Or ToM's recursion. In a similar boat, Imperishable Conviction has come up once for me? Since 2005. Because when you face Kreoss you need to focus on killing dudes to limit his feat. So you never prioritize him. And he's SPD5 no PF too, so he's usually not a threat on his own. 10" threat is tiny in today's WMH, and has been for some time. That's really about it. Vindy and ToM especially, and HR and Harbie too, just do exemplar spam better. He relies totally on his feat to make up for losses -- which you will VERY MOST DEFINITELY suffer -- but has no mechanic to deliver his forces. IR a unit, toss out Sacrosanct if it actually matters, and then stop noding with Castigate if necessary. And watch out for Buff stripping, because Kreoss is an upkeep bot. My preference would be convert Sacrosanct to a CTRL area effect (see Sevy1 EoM), give him back Aegis and EC: Aegis for KE, and give him a CMD area PF effect for exemplar. This retains his upfront playstyle drive while making him cast/upkeep less, and actually gives him a mild protective aura for his swarms o dudez. He still competes with ToM and Vindy. His forces will still take hard losses prior to feat (I think PP sees this as a natural balancing factor for the feat) and it keeps him pretty exemplar-focused, which is OK. You can play out of EI, but those lists can find PF or other protections to shore up Kreoss's own shortcomings. As is, he took multiple, inexplicable nerfs from MKII to MKIII, just to gain a single point of ARM.
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jan 3, 2018 18:54:06 GMT
Basically, I'd like to see Kreoss2 start the Exemplar CID cycle like this: Increase MAT to 8. Increase CMD to 10. Add Aegis to Kreoss. Add Elite Cadre [Knights Exemplar]: Aegis to Kreoss Add Leadership [Exemplar]: Friendly exemplar models/units beginning their activation in Kreoss's command area gain Pathfinder for one turn. Add Veteran Leader [Exemplar] to Kreoss. Add *Attack Armor Piercing to Justifier. Remove Sacrosanct from spell list. Add Sacrosanct as ability to Kreoss as follows: "When an enemy non-warcaster, non-warlock warrior model destroys one or more friendly factions models in this model's control area with an attack, immediately after the attack is resolved the attacking model becomes knocked down.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Jan 3, 2018 20:39:14 GMT
Basically, I'd like to see Kreoss2 start the Exemplar CID cycle like this: Increase MAT to 8. Increase CMD to 10. Add Aegis to Kreoss. Add Elite Cadre [Knights Exemplar]: Aegis to Kreoss Add Leadership [Exemplar]: Friendly exemplar models/units beginning their activation in Kreoss's command area gain Pathfinder for one turn. Add Veteran Leader [Exemplar] to Kreoss. Add *Attack Armor Piercing to Justifier. Remove Sacrosanct from spell list. Add Sacrosanct as ability to Kreoss as follows: "When an enemy non-warcaster, non-warlock warrior model destroys one or more friendly factions models in this model's control area with an attack, immediately after the attack is resolved the attacking model becomes knocked down. I always though sacrosanct was a useless spell, But I fear making it control area all the time would be way to powerful. You basically shut down infantry with berserk/overtake/cleave . Not to mention the ramifications of always knocking down a warrior model that kills something any ranged infantry based guns would be useless. Perhaps change sacrosanct to a control area duration round spell that makes all models in control immune to continuous effects and gives out tough or no knockdown? I like all the other options. Castigate is a really good spell into cryx, cygnar, and hordes in general. I also think he doesn't really need to give out pathfinder, maybe relentless charge instead?
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Jan 3, 2018 20:51:26 GMT
Sacrosanct as a cheap control area spell is actually quite interesting.
|
|