Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 30, 2018 11:24:49 GMT
My friend pointed out to me that protectorate is the only faction where units with proper shields don't have shield wall. Cam anyone think of a counter example? I really think cinerators should have shield wall base. The units with shield but not shield wall in Menoth have another unit on the same stat base. The ones with shields have an extra point of armor written straight into the profile instead of as an advantage countered by a flail or a backstrike.
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Post by Cryptix on Apr 30, 2018 12:26:53 GMT
My friend pointed out to me that protectorate is the only faction where units with proper shields don't have shield wall. Cam anyone think of a counter example? I really think cinerators should have shield wall base. The units with shield but not shield wall in Menoth have another unit on the same stat base. The ones with shields have an extra point of armor written straight into the profile instead of as an advantage countered by a flail or a backstrike. Bane knights and bane warriors have the same deal.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Apr 30, 2018 12:48:37 GMT
The fact that Cinerators are going to get shield wall makes me wonder if PP are finally going to reverse the roles of Bastions and Cinerators. If they do, it gets much easier to fix Bastions. I'm not holding my breath though I'm still confused as to what the primary roles of both are meant to be. Is the bastion meant to hang around absorbing damage while the cinerator moves ahead?
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Post by bskhacker on Apr 30, 2018 12:50:27 GMT
My friend pointed out to me that protectorate is the only faction where units with proper shields don't have shield wall. Cam anyone think of a counter example? I really think cinerators should have shield wall base. But TFG have shield wall and they have proper shields.
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Post by paradox on Apr 30, 2018 13:23:08 GMT
The fact that Cinerators are going to get shield wall makes me wonder if PP are finally going to reverse the roles of Bastions and Cinerators. If they do, it gets much easier to fix Bastions. I'm not holding my breath though I'm still confused as to what the primary roles of both are meant to be. Is the bastion meant to hang around absorbing damage while the cinerator moves ahead? Correct, but the models are ill-suited to reflecting the roles because shields lend the cinerators towards more defensive abilities. I think PP struggled with properly stating and assigning abilites so that bastions were good without being OP MMM style we ended MKII with, without also making cinerators silly durable because shields. Its a super crappy position to be in, and I all but guarantee CID wont solve it be ause its beyond the scope. They will not rename and repackage them. They need to, but they wont. It sucks.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 30, 2018 14:14:24 GMT
So has the CID models been released yet? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Post by falkman on Apr 30, 2018 14:21:21 GMT
So has the CID models been released yet? Inquiring minds would like to know. The CiD starts on May 2nd.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 30, 2018 14:22:26 GMT
Right on, thanks.
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Post by W0lfBane on Apr 30, 2018 14:25:58 GMT
My friend pointed out to me that protectorate is the only faction where units with proper shields don't have shield wall. Cam anyone think of a counter example? I really think cinerators should have shield wall base. The units with shield but not shield wall in Menoth have another unit on the same stat base. The ones with shields have an extra point of armor written straight into the profile instead of as an advantage countered by a flail or a backstrike. Man o war shocktroopers have 1 more armour on their base stats than bombadiers and they have shield wall on top of that. So that argument is a bit moot. But thanks everyone for pointing at all the other shield walless dudes.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 30, 2018 14:51:50 GMT
All I want is for Kreoss3 to be able to take Vengers in every theme. Make Elite Cadre work like character warjack bonds!
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 30, 2018 14:59:06 GMT
My friend pointed out to me that protectorate is the only faction where units with proper shields don't have shield wall. Cam anyone think of a counter example? I really think cinerators should have shield wall base. But TFG have shield wall and they have proper shields. I missed this before, but that's actually a notable difference. Most of the shields that can't form shield walls look rather small, more like bucklers perhaps....can't really form a mobile wall when you've just got bucklers.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Apr 30, 2018 15:27:52 GMT
All I want is for Kreoss3 to be able to take Vengers in every theme. Make Elite Cadre work like character warjack bonds! In our theme based world allowing Kreoss3 to take Vengers just confuses the other themes, doesn't it? I see two basic (simplified) scenarios: 1) you are taking two full units (because why not) in a theme that does not benefit them or benefit from them. Pre-CID they look to be very good with Kreoss3 but still are not considered game breaking or anything. 2) The only place I might want them (that I can think of outside EI) is in Creators Might. I am not sure how much Kreoss3 likes that theme. This allows you to take a full unit of Idreans and what you want to take in Vengers and this fixes your infantry requirements in a theme that is intended to be Jacks and support. Please let me know if I am missing something here. I amtheory crafting. I am not experienced with Kreoss3 or vengers on the table. On a lore note: It would be cool if he could take FA:1, or 1 min, as a bodyguard type unit. But again, I don't know how the would actually effect the game as a whole.
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Post by paradox on Apr 30, 2018 15:29:13 GMT
Or just play out of theme.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 30, 2018 15:37:51 GMT
All I want is for Kreoss3 to be able to take Vengers in every theme. Make Elite Cadre work like character warjack bonds! In our theme based world allowing Kreoss3 to take Vengers just confuses the other themes, doesn't it? I see two basic (simplified) scenarios: 1) you are taking two full units (because why not) in a theme that does not benefit them or benefit from them. Pre-CID they look to be very good with Kreoss3 but still are not considered game breaking or anything. 2) The only place I might want them (that I can think of outside EI) is in Creators Might. I am not sure how much Kreoss3 likes that theme. This allows you to take a full unit of Idreans and what you want to take in Vengers and this fixes your infantry requirements in a theme that is intended to be Jacks and support. Please let me know if I am missing something here. I amtheory crafting. I am not experienced with Kreoss3 or vengers on the table. On a lore note: It would be cool if he could take FA:1, or 1 min, as a bodyguard type unit. But again, I don't know how the would actually effect the game as a whole. It's not really about power, it's more that that would be fluffy cool ability that would just be a quality of life improvement. It would just be nice for him to at least have the option of always using his Elite Cadre. There's not really a downside that I see, especially since most (if not all) of the time you would be sacrificing theme points for it, which would heavily limit potential abuse.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Apr 30, 2018 15:49:19 GMT
It's not really about power, it's more that that would be fluffy cool ability that would just be a quality of life improvement. It would just be nice for him to at least have the option of always using his Elite Cadre. There's not really a downside that I see, especially since most (if not all) of the time you would be sacrificing theme points for it, which would heavily limit potential abuse. If there isn't some hidden power list based on it then I have no problem with the idea. It just won't get used in competitive formats. In a casual setting were you don't mind losing out on free theme points by taking them, I am curious what theme benefits you still want to have vs. just playing out of theme?
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