Post by chillychinaman on Dec 21, 2017 22:02:20 GMT
We finally have a timeline for our first faction CID. Even if it is next summer, let's hash out the main points.
Theme Benefits
For the theme benefits, +2" Deployment is always good for a melee oriented army. However, Blessed, while powerful doesn't seem particularly thematic.
CM can get away with giving buffing the jack's support models and FM's jack buff is fueled by the mainstay infantry. Blessed doesn't seem to tie into exemplars in a meaningful way. Would Righteous Vengeance be too close to FM's buff? Does that matter in a faction with as many death/damage effects as the Protectorate? A safer option could be to give Errants Ambush and/or Backstab.
Fire of Salvation should also be added to the theme list to bring it in line with other character models.
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Units
As for the Exemplar themselves, I think it's safe to say that main points of contention are the Bastions and Cinerators followed by Errants.
Bastions
Bastions have since gotten back their old Sanguine Bond, courtesy of the Trolls, however, most feel they don't have the boxes nor the ARM to truly take advantage of it. Meanwhile Cinerators while mostly powerful, but difficult to deliver due to their slow speed and poor defenses. In the case of Errants, with the re-introduction of mercs, their intended combat role has mostly been supplanted by the Idrians, especially those not seeking to maximize free points. In addition, the new appearance of Elias has mostly returned them to their Mk2 glory, but shackled to a rather bloated and unwieldy package.
It has been discussed that Bastions can gain/replace rules for Carapace or Impervious Flesh. Carapace would make them immune to all but the strongest guns, however it does nothing for basic,ie MAT7 PS12, infantry charges which still outright kill them more than half the time. Impervious Flesh remedies both situations, however, it is a relatively unprecedented rule on combat units.
Cinerators
In can be argued that everything Cinerators provide can be found cheaper on Knights. Since they both wear Bastion plate and serve as heavier Exemplars, I think it would be reasonable for Cinerators to inherit whatever change is made to Bastions to help make them more survivable, and thus deliverable. A more unique answer could be some interaction with fire due to their Blazing Swords.
Errants
Finally, Errants could use some help. On paper, the base units stack up reasonably well. Idrians trade the "elite" stats of Errants for utilities like CRA and native Pathfinder.
I feel the real problem is in their UAs. Reposition helps with their short ranged guns and go to ground can give them DEF17 anywhere on the map against many threats. Prey either equalizes the disparity in power or can be used to dictate your opponents deployment. In contrast Purity that removes all upkeeps, usually after their damage has already been inflicted unless preemptively activated and Assault is relatively weak given its low POW coupled with the short range of their swords limits its usefulness in providing multiple attacks.
I would prefer to replace Assault with Dual Attack or Point Blank to guarantee two attacks per model, provided you have a target. In particular Point Blank has the benefit of interacting with things like Ignite, Silence of Death, and Kreoss2's feat.
Another point of contention with Errants is that their support is spread across 3 groups of models. While this has the benefit of allowing players to only field what they plan on using, like Net Neutrality, it comes after Mk2 where it used to be concentrated.
Ideally I would like to see Pathfinder become native and Elias' Leadership ability become a shooting focused ability. This way, if you want melee prowess you take the UA, Elias for marksmanship, and the Seneschal for melee durability.
Theme Benefits
For the theme benefits, +2" Deployment is always good for a melee oriented army. However, Blessed, while powerful doesn't seem particularly thematic.
CM can get away with giving buffing the jack's support models and FM's jack buff is fueled by the mainstay infantry. Blessed doesn't seem to tie into exemplars in a meaningful way. Would Righteous Vengeance be too close to FM's buff? Does that matter in a faction with as many death/damage effects as the Protectorate? A safer option could be to give Errants Ambush and/or Backstab.
Fire of Salvation should also be added to the theme list to bring it in line with other character models.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Units
As for the Exemplar themselves, I think it's safe to say that main points of contention are the Bastions and Cinerators followed by Errants.
Bastions
Bastions have since gotten back their old Sanguine Bond, courtesy of the Trolls, however, most feel they don't have the boxes nor the ARM to truly take advantage of it. Meanwhile Cinerators while mostly powerful, but difficult to deliver due to their slow speed and poor defenses. In the case of Errants, with the re-introduction of mercs, their intended combat role has mostly been supplanted by the Idrians, especially those not seeking to maximize free points. In addition, the new appearance of Elias has mostly returned them to their Mk2 glory, but shackled to a rather bloated and unwieldy package.
It has been discussed that Bastions can gain/replace rules for Carapace or Impervious Flesh. Carapace would make them immune to all but the strongest guns, however it does nothing for basic,ie MAT7 PS12, infantry charges which still outright kill them more than half the time. Impervious Flesh remedies both situations, however, it is a relatively unprecedented rule on combat units.
Cinerators
In can be argued that everything Cinerators provide can be found cheaper on Knights. Since they both wear Bastion plate and serve as heavier Exemplars, I think it would be reasonable for Cinerators to inherit whatever change is made to Bastions to help make them more survivable, and thus deliverable. A more unique answer could be some interaction with fire due to their Blazing Swords.
Errants
Finally, Errants could use some help. On paper, the base units stack up reasonably well. Idrians trade the "elite" stats of Errants for utilities like CRA and native Pathfinder.
I feel the real problem is in their UAs. Reposition helps with their short ranged guns and go to ground can give them DEF17 anywhere on the map against many threats. Prey either equalizes the disparity in power or can be used to dictate your opponents deployment. In contrast Purity that removes all upkeeps, usually after their damage has already been inflicted unless preemptively activated and Assault is relatively weak given its low POW coupled with the short range of their swords limits its usefulness in providing multiple attacks.
I would prefer to replace Assault with Dual Attack or Point Blank to guarantee two attacks per model, provided you have a target. In particular Point Blank has the benefit of interacting with things like Ignite, Silence of Death, and Kreoss2's feat.
Another point of contention with Errants is that their support is spread across 3 groups of models. While this has the benefit of allowing players to only field what they plan on using, like Net Neutrality, it comes after Mk2 where it used to be concentrated.
Ideally I would like to see Pathfinder become native and Elias' Leadership ability become a shooting focused ability. This way, if you want melee prowess you take the UA, Elias for marksmanship, and the Seneschal for melee durability.