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Post by bane on Dec 19, 2017 16:35:21 GMT
Hi could anybody please confirm for us if Kozlov is counted as an iron fang model? In all of his fluff he is but can't see anything on card that says he is. Ive read somewhere that bane witch agathia can benefit from Tartarus ability because she is a bane model. So what I want to know is can Kozlov charge through his shield wall pikemen due to Markov's tactician ability for all iron fangs??
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 19, 2017 16:37:00 GMT
He is not an Iron Fang, it would need to state it somewhere on his card. Agathia is called 'Bane Witch Agathia' as she has the word 'Bane' in her title she is a Bane.
edit, PP like to confuse things by making a model something in the fluff, and then not representing it on their card. Caine is a gun mage in the fluff, but not a gun mage on his card.
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Post by jisidro on Dec 19, 2017 16:49:08 GMT
Are you sure about Agathis? Isn't she a Bane Witch and not a bane or a Witch? Say, faction X gets "Bad ass name, the bane apocalypse" and then he gets Vet elader from Tartarus... Not a good moment....
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 19, 2017 16:55:46 GMT
Are you sure about Agathis? Isn't she a Bane Witch and not a bane or a Witch? Say, faction X gets "Bad ass name, the bane apocalypse" and then he gets Vet elader from Tartarus... Not a good moment.... A 'Bane Witch' is a 'Bane', same as 'Bane Knights', 'Bane Warriors' and 'Bane Riders' are all 'Banes'
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Post by jisidro on Dec 19, 2017 17:09:59 GMT
Are you sure about Agathis? Isn't she a Bane Witch and not a bane or a Witch? Say, faction X gets "Bad ass name, the bane apocalypse" and then he gets Vet elader from Tartarus... Not a good moment.... A 'Bane Witch' is a 'Bane', same as 'Bane Knights', 'Bane Warriors' and 'Bane Riders' are all 'Banes'
You're right... just checked and None of those units have the bane keyword on their types... Rookie mistake IMO. I've seen that kind of logic hit the fan at least twice in my gaming "career"...
So she gets Vet leader from Tartarus. Cool for her!
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Dec 19, 2017 17:41:24 GMT
It's likely omitted to prevent a rule interaction that they didn't want, probably No Sleeping on the Job since Knockdown immunity is a big deal for casters.
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Post by bane on Dec 19, 2017 18:22:35 GMT
It's likely omitted to prevent a rule interaction that they didn't want, probably No Sleeping on the Job since Knockdown immunity is a big deal for casters. Pirate queen skarre gets no sleeping on the job from the raider captain so I dont see why Kozlov shouldn't get it!
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Post by gobber on Dec 19, 2017 18:42:56 GMT
A 'Bane Witch' is a 'Bane', same as 'Bane Knights', 'Bane Warriors' and 'Bane Riders' are all 'Banes'
You're right... just checked and None of those units have the bane keyword on their types... Rookie mistake IMO. I've seen that kind of logic hit the fan at least twice in my gaming "career"...
So she gets Vet leader from Tartarus. Cool for her!
She also gets to run desecrator gunlines in Black Industries. Accumulator [bane] ftw.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Dec 20, 2017 2:10:25 GMT
Alternatively, if Kozlov doesn't want to be knocked down he can upkeep Chosen Ground.
He'd be able to move through Iron Fangs with Markov and he'd get Veteran Leader from Sofya. And I imagine he probably still wouldn't see too much play.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Dec 20, 2017 4:33:29 GMT
It's likely omitted to prevent a rule interaction that they didn't want, probably No Sleeping on the Job since Knockdown immunity is a big deal for casters. Pirate queen skarre gets no sleeping on the job from the raider captain so I dont see why Kozlov shouldn't get it! Because different casters in different factions get different rules. Also as others have pointed out Kozlov had a spell for knockdown immunity.
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Post by gobber on Dec 20, 2017 6:29:16 GMT
Tactician and Vet Leader would still be neat though; I really don't see the reason not to tag him. On another note, now that all the iron fang solos get countercharge, it'd be mighty flavorful if Kozlov could pick that up someday.
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Post by borderprince on Dec 20, 2017 8:02:09 GMT
I really don't see the reason not to tag him. Might be fluff rather than rules interactions. Especially as we can't see a rules interaction that doesn't already exist for a caster. Tacitician can be given to Maddox via the Storm Knight captain and Vet Leader to Rask via the Mist Speaker. From a fluff perspective, according to the IKRPG core book: "Although the Iron Fang legions are a close-knit organization where most members would rather die than leave their brothers in arms, sometimes men do leave the legions for their own reasons. Those who do are seldom welcomed back." Kozlov seems to have been an Iron Fang in the past, but warcaster training (and his own aristocratic obligations) might mean that he had to leave. Even though those are probably good reasons for leaving, that doesn't mean he would be welcomed back as a full member. Close-knit groups aren't always rational about people who put something other than the group first.
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Dec 20, 2017 10:15:54 GMT
It's like how a "vampire hunter" is also automatically a "vampire". Lots of games have this kind of rule where any word in their name or title counts as a key word. WM didn't used to have it, but apparently they do now.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Dec 20, 2017 16:48:15 GMT
It's like how a "vampire hunter" is also automatically a "vampire". Lots of games have this kind of rule where any word in their name or title counts as a key word. WM didn't used to have it, but apparently they do now. That was a whole kurfuffle near the end of MkII. Someone asked about Forgeguard with Murdoch getting Desperate Pace from Finn (I think it was DP, don't remember what Finn did in MkII) and were told that it only works on Murdoch. Somehow the thread got the attention of a PP staffer (I think it was Shick) who came in and basically said "Yea, if any model in the unit has a tag then that unit counts as an X unit, did you guys not know that?" That set off a huge wave of people looking for these interactions and looking at specific instances of single-word tags inside multi-word tags (like, is Eiryss a "Mage" because she has the "Mage Hunter" tag?). They ended up doing a fair bit of errata around it and I think they pulled the unit bit in MkIII but AFAIK any individual word in a models name, type, or subtype lines can still be an identifier if they chose to use it. By your example though, it would only matter if there was a rule that effected "vampire models" in the vampire hunter model's faction. Most of the time it doesn't mean anything, but like others said it works for anything that's tagged as "Bane" for example.
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Post by greytemplar on Dec 20, 2017 17:20:10 GMT
Are you sure about Agathis? Isn't she a Bane Witch and not a bane or a Witch? Say, faction X gets "Bad ass name, the bane apocalypse" and then he gets Vet elader from Tartarus... Not a good moment.... She is both. She is a Bane. She is a Witch. She is a Bane Witch. She is a Warcaster. She is a Bane Warcaster. She is a Witch Warcaster. She is a Bane Witch Warcaster. She is a Warcaster Witch Bane Etc... Any of the tags on a model can be combined in any order. Take the Champion of the Order of the Wall. Paladin Solo. He is a Paladin of the Order of the Wall and benefits from Vilmon's elite cadre because "Paladin" and "of the Order of the Wall" are on his card. It doesn't matter that they aren't together. Kozlov is not a Iron Fang because he doesn't have Iron and Fang in his tag or a rule saying he is an Iron Fang. He is a Viscount model. He is Lord model. He is a Viscount of Scarsgrand. It's similar to how Intercessor Kreoss in mk2 was NOT an Exemplar model like his previous 2 versions because he lacked the Exemplar tag in either his name or the tag under his name. Mk3 changed his tag to read "Protectorate Exemplar Warcaster", but prior to that he was not an exemplar model. Guis and Cassian, Rhoven's bodyguards, lack the Exemplar tag. They do however have a rule which says they are Exemplar models.
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