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Post by ninjastars on Dec 20, 2017 4:30:07 GMT
I'm seeing alot of Axers in peoples list. What are people thoughts on replacing the Axer with something else in Kolgrima's beast heavy builds? I love the Axer, but I always feel like I'm looking for ways to throw off the "auto include" shackles. Idea being Hunters Mark would take over for Rush. Is this a pipe dream since the pathfinder part of Rush is just too good to pass on? It also helps Mulg get into place early game. Theoretically I like the idea of finding 4 additional points somewhere, and having 2 Bashers or Night Trolls in place of an Axer. No time to test since I've got a new kiddo at home. I'll have to live vicariously through the forums for a while. Also it can just be useful to maximize threat range. An 11 inch threat is good, but a 13 inch is getting into the rare zone, so I think it’s usually worth bringing the axer for that. On the other hand, kolgrima can deny charges with the cloud wall, which makes the long charges less necessary, so maybe you’ll be okay without him. I think I still want the axer in the end.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 20, 2017 8:13:02 GMT
... Theme: Power of Dhunia Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 ... I decided to make SUPER creative changes to this list, and try it next time. Ill drop one of the Bombers for two Ice Trolls and a Chef. Then ill switch Janissa for a Shaman. I figured id try and take a little bit more advantage of the NK elder, while retaining the core of the lists. The two Ice Trolls will shoot slightly less well than a Bomber, but they have a potential to crit stationary the target, allowing the Bomber to boost damage on two shots rather than boost hit against some targets. For 4 Fury, i get 2 fully boosted POW 15s rather than the Bomber who may risk missing if he does not boost to hit. The Shaman is either a potential extra spray, or could help protecting caster/stone with an extra free cloud. Very slight changes for sure (and the Ice Trolls arent out quite yet) but i think i might be on to something. I was actually considering going 4 ice trolls rather than 2 bombers (to get swamp gobbers to score with) but i think that significantly weakens the list against heavy targets (a Raged Ice Troll is not at all as dangerous as a Raged Bomber) and against infantry (no blasts), so i went for a happy medium
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Post by cheesejack on Dec 20, 2017 11:11:31 GMT
I keep wanting to try Kolgrima with Highwaymen and Sluggers in Kriel Company. Cursed Fate + large ammounts of shots (with a guarenteed point of damage) can't be bad.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 20, 2017 11:35:27 GMT
I keep wanting to try Kolgrima with Highwaymen and Sluggers in Kriel Company. Cursed Fate + large ammounts of shots (with a guarenteed point of damage) can't be bad. That is indeed a nifty interaction, but she doesnt do much to help Kriel Company with it's weaknesses. In the right match up, that list will be absolute mayhem, but if you encounter any type of heavy, it will struggle. Might give you trouble in list selection when your KC list will trounce one of their lists (at best) but be unplayable against the other. You may end up always dropping your other list, since you do not dare face the potential bad match up of the KC list. But sure, if you KNOW you will face single wound infantry with low to medium DEF and not much else, then Kolgrimma in KC should be sort of an auto win. The Khador pikemen theme seems like a very good match up for you for example.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Dec 20, 2017 14:28:47 GMT
I tried OP's list last night and almost assassinated Jaga Jaga at the top of two, then ground out an attrition victory, despite forgetting to feat the turn I wanted to. It was both our first game with the list we were playing, though, so we both made a lot of mistakes.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Dec 20, 2017 14:34:20 GMT
I tried OP's list last night and almost assassinated Jaga Jaga at the top of two, then ground out an attrition victory, despite forgetting to feat the turn I wanted to. It was both our first game with the list we were playing, though, so we both made a lot of mistakes. Also keep in mind that Jaga Jaga is essentially a dedicated anti Cryx caster so playing against a Troll beast brick is probably one of the worst matchups possible for her.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 20, 2017 19:27:19 GMT
I tried OP's list last night and almost assassinated Jaga Jaga at the top of two, then ground out an attrition victory, despite forgetting to feat the turn I wanted to. It was both our first game with the list we were playing, though, so we both made a lot of mistakes. Also keep in mind that Jaga Jaga is essentially a dedicated anti Cryx caster so playing against a Troll beast brick is probably one of the worst matchups possible for her. Is that even necessarily true? With SnP depending on what she fields she should be able to eat bricks up pretty easily.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 20, 2017 19:28:35 GMT
... Theme: Power of Dhunia Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 ... I decided to make SUPER creative changes to this list, and try it next time. Ill drop one of the Bombers for two Ice Trolls and a Chef. Then ill switch Janissa for a Shaman. I figured id try and take a little bit more advantage of the NK elder, while retaining the core of the lists. The two Ice Trolls will shoot slightly less well than a Bomber, but they have a potential to crit stationary the target, allowing the Bomber to boost damage on two shots rather than boost hit against some targets. For 4 Fury, i get 2 fully boosted POW 15s rather than the Bomber who may risk missing if he does not boost to hit. The Shaman is either a potential extra spray, or could help protecting caster/stone with an extra free cloud. Very slight changes for sure (and the Ice Trolls arent out quite yet) but i think i might be on to something. I was actually considering going 4 ice trolls rather than 2 bombers (to get swamp gobbers to score with) but i think that significantly weakens the list against heavy targets (a Raged Ice Troll is not at all as dangerous as a Raged Bomber) and against infantry (no blasts), so i went for a happy medium I would recommend keeping Janyssa still. With all the shooting beasts access to elevation can be very important.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 20, 2017 21:10:57 GMT
Sure, there is more to Mulg than his new arc-node animus, but regardless, the Axer is not optional. There are so many times when any beast can badly need the +2 movement, Pathfinder, or both. Every time I leave the Axer out of a POD list, I regret it.
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Post by ninjastars on Dec 20, 2017 23:04:44 GMT
I personally would bring an axer, but I could see the argument that kolgrima doesn’t need one. With her cloud walls, it’s possible for kolgrima to get her beasts within 9 inches of your opponent and prevent them from being charged. So if you really want to leave it at home, I think you could play around it.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 21, 2017 7:19:00 GMT
I personally would bring an axer, but I could see the argument that kolgrima doesn’t need one. With her cloud walls, it’s possible for kolgrima to get her beasts within 9 inches of your opponent and prevent them from being charged. So if you really want to leave it at home, I think you could play around it. Possibly, but I don't like to bet too much on the clouds either.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 21, 2017 7:57:26 GMT
Im one of the guys who often leave the axer at home, but that heavily depends on what other beasts i am including. If my beat sticks are Maulers and EBDTs, then i think the Axer is not super useful. I COULD include it, but getting a POW 15 EBDT to the enemy as quickly as possible seems less than awesome. If i have a Gargantuan, Mulg or Rök though, i have a beat stick that can do work while under Rush. The new Brawler also interests me as a rage-less beat stick. In a ranged focused list with Bombers, i could include the Axer or leave it at home.
In THIS list though, the fact that i have Mulg AND want the opportunity to trample and arc, the axer is mandatory for me.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Dec 21, 2017 15:25:22 GMT
She’s in ADR.
Put an Axer/Basher in your Specialist to swap with a Brawler (or other equal trade of course) and give yourself options depending on matchup.
This is exactly what I was saying in the ADR thread.
Also... ol misty might be good to bring along to solve order of activation issues with the clouds and your own troops.
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Post by robbleyourworld on Dec 21, 2017 17:05:53 GMT
I've run Kolgrima+Mulg both with and without an axer. From my experience while doable without an axer the number of times you wish you had rush in a given game is astounding so I agree that an axer is near mandatory. Pre-croak updates I was running this. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0bj19DiYiYjp0hjqfF6R75fp0li-Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia !!! Your army contains pre-release entries. (Kolgrima 1) Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch [+28] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Ice Troll [9] - Ice Troll [9] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] Dhunian Knot [6] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] The ice trolls are in because I wanted to take advantage of the northkin elder with more models than kolgrima. Going to have to try it with a bomber and croaks
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 22, 2017 5:55:03 GMT
She’s in ADR. Put an Axer/Basher in your Specialist to swap with a Brawler (or other equal trade of course) and give yourself options depending on matchup. This is exactly what I was saying in the ADR thread. Also... ol misty might be good to bring along to solve order of activation issues with the clouds and your own troops. I mean why waste 1/4 of your ADR on a potential swap out for a piece (the Axer) that you should NEVER get rid of. It's a threat extender that can be applied by it or your warcaster, you can send it in and it hits as hard as some factions heavies if you have rage on it, it can thresher troops and even if it isnt important you can park it on contesting duty while passively threatening an extra 2" out of mulg and your bombers. I literally cannot think of a single instance where he doesn't earn you more than his points in passive pressure. As for the Mistspeaker, how often will you go with Kolgrima before your own stuff and want to cloud? I can't think of any given scenario where that would be a thing.
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