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Post by greenjello on Dec 18, 2017 14:27:57 GMT
So I played Madrak3 into the Grymkin King of Nothing in a casual game. I had not played Madrak3 before, so I wanted to try him out. I had had no experience with the Grymkin until this point. | Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes
(Madrak 3) Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] |
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[/b] [*]Earthborn Dire Troll [14][*]Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)][/ul]Horthol, Long Rider Hero [8]Trollkin Champion Hero [0(5)]Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes ( max) [9][/b] [/ul]Long Riders (max) [20]Trollkin Champions (max) [16][/font]][/b] [*]Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3][/ul]Trollkin Champions (max) [16][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] I'm thinking this might not be the most effective list with Madrak3, and that he could use a unit or two of cheap troops. I also was going with the split deployment, so stone + champs on one side, rest on the other. If you're going to make army suggestions for Madrak3, please focus on dual stone approaches, since I think that's his big advantage. | Grymkin Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Bump in the Night
(King of Nothing 1) The King of Nothing [+28] |
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[/b] [*]Cage Rager [14][*]Crabbits (2) [7][*]Crabbits (2) [7][/ul]Cask Imp (2) [1]Cask Imp (2) [1]Glimmer Imp [4]Lord Longfellow [0(6)]Witchwood [0(5)]Witchwood [5]Dread Rots ( max) [12]Dread Rots (max) [12]Hollowmen ( min) [8][/b] [/ul]Mad Caps [4]Mad Caps [4]Twilight Sisters [7][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] Scenario was Standoff I did okay in some areas, not so hot in others, I managed to take out most of his infantry, and claim one of the but what I was really struggling with was the clouds. KoN can put out 4 per turn, and with terrain on the table, it can add up to a fairly large area. (I believe he was easily getting 12-15") What are some Troll strategies for dealing with clouds? Seems like we have a few options: 1) Walk through them, melee/shoot stuff on the other side 2) Bring Lynus and Edrea 3) Ignore the clouds, and play to scenario |
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stibe
Light Addition
Posts: 62 
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Post by stibe on Dec 18, 2017 14:32:14 GMT
Also Bog Trog Mist Speaker can hand out Eyeless Sight, maybe to a King of choice...
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 18, 2017 14:57:02 GMT
Take Lynus & Edrea, if you run a model to the correct position then hit it in the back with Wind Blast, you can remove 3 x 3" clouds
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Dec 18, 2017 15:50:48 GMT
Play kolgrima and put down your OWN clouds  |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Dec 18, 2017 16:39:15 GMT
I played Jarl into trenchers, and they were very sad when I put down my cloud wall on top of theirs. He also has quicken, which makes the walk in/through technique more effective.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 19, 2017 0:36:56 GMT
I played Jarl into trenchers, and they were very sad when I put down my cloud wall on top of theirs. He also has quicken, which makes the walk in/through technique more effective. How does putting your cloud wall on top of theirs make trenchers sad? You still can't see through their clouds. |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Dec 19, 2017 1:17:55 GMT
No, but he was not planning on not getting to shoot me, and it let me cross the center of the table with my champs to put a lot of scenario pressure on him.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 19, 2017 7:03:32 GMT
A list that is based on melee units will always struggle against clouds. If you can run and engage the trenchers with the long riders (preferably with the feat up) they cant really put up a cloud wall for the next turn. Another key thing is to apply scenario pressure. If they are going to hang back behind clouds, you make sure you start scoring scenario on your side. The echoes will come out to contest, yes, but Trolls are probably one of the best factions to kill them with, ESPECIALLY with Spell piercer available. Your list is perhaps not as strong against shooting as you want a list to be to be a "counter" to haley 3, but you could probably do well with it. Either get in their face, or score your side (and contest theirs) or better yet: do both |
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 19, 2017 7:19:43 GMT
A list that is based on melee units will always struggle against clouds. If you can run and engage the trenchers with the long riders (preferably with the feat up) they cant really put up a cloud wall for the next turn. Another key thing is to apply scenario pressure. If they are going to hang back behind clouds, you make sure you start scoring scenario on your side. The echoes will come out to contest, yes, but Trolls are probably one of the best factions to kill them with, ESPECIALLY with Spell piercer available. Your list is perhaps not as strong against shooting as you want a list to be to be a "counter" to haley 3, but you could probably do well with it. Either get in their face, or score your side (and contest theirs) or better yet: do both Thanks for explaining that. I don't tend to face any cloudwalls in my meta so havn't really had much experience in that regards. Starting to score on your side seems like a good way to put pressure on scenario so I will try that if I ever come up against a cloudwall. Relying on SPELLPIERCER is a big no no for me. I love the Madrak3 model but in my experience he just doesn't work on the table due to the fact that he is all over the place rules wise with Spellpiercer only occasionally being useful. Top that off with a feat that is a 50/50 die roll and the fact that everything he does, multiple other casters do better and he will be forever relegated to the shelf. I really don't understand why he was this badly designed, it seems to be the same with most other casters that have/had Spellpiercer such as Mortenebra2, pre CID Jaga Jaga. |
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Post by greenjello on Dec 19, 2017 13:52:50 GMT
Trollock - Agreed, I was scoring my side of the table, while he scored his. I was in control of two zones, to his two zones, and the clouds were being used to move up dread rots which were just dangerous enough to keep me thinking about what I wanted to sacrifice. grabsnikk - Madrak3 has protective aura and shield guard, both of which are unique. I can't think of another caster in our faction that allows us to spread out so well. Still undecided if that's useful or not, or if he's a good caster, but I think it's a bit too dismissive to say that everything he can do another caster can do better. Oddly enough shield guard on Madrak3 pretty much negated the Witchwood's ability to take over my troops, since I was close enough to shield guard the attack, and then ignore it, since it doesn't effect warlocks.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 20, 2017 7:03:34 GMT
When Madrak 3 was released, him having shield guard was great, since it allowed you to play a gargantuan without having Alten Ashley put grievous wounds on it. Then they made gargantuans immune to GW, and made AA more expensive to boot.
Then we have the protective Aura that CAN allow you to leave the kriel stone at home and have +2 ARM for a small Battle Group anyway. This seems very nice for a list that relies on infantry (that do not need the kriel stone, such as fennblades), but is way less awesome when you want your entire army under the stone aura. It also doesnt give the nice perks of the NK elder for example, so it will be way less useful in for SotN.
The way i see it is that Madrak 3s "super power" is being able to have "more stuff" by not spending points at a kriel stone. His other stuff is fairly mediocre, so if you can not leverage this one thing, you are probably better off playing another caster.
Rebuke though is very nice to have, and since the meta contains a lot of infantry in basically every faction, he might be worth revisiting just for that. He is totally playable for sure (and for some reason he is the warlock i have the highest win% with) but im not really a fan of him. If i were to try and make him work, i would start with a BoH list with lots of light infantry (takes the most advantage of the feat) and a small core of things that could stay under his protective aura. That would allow me to bring 12 more points of things that do work rather than the stone and then i would work from there i think...
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Dec 20, 2017 14:07:13 GMT
or you can just bring 12 points more stuff and do not care about the stone and choose another warlock :)Protecting a 2 beast battlegroup (unless it is a garg) is notworth taking a stone for it)
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Post by greenjello on Dec 20, 2017 14:23:23 GMT
Yeah, I'm definitely coming around to the single wound infantry approach to Madrak3, it really does feel like the feat works best with that. I threw the list together the way I did mostly on a whim, and to see what happens. Also helps that most of it takes advantage of the stones well.
Not so convinced that dual stones isn't the way to go, particularly since the scenarios seem to like to put the infantry zones away from the middle, like Standoff. Maybe it really is a rubbish idea, but it's unique in Trolls, and it's refreshing to be able to spread out.
OTOH, that puts me in the horns of a dilemma. If I go first, I can drop all the fury into the stone, but I don't know how to split my forces. If I go second, I know where the op force is, and can deploy accordingly, but I'll probably be limited in what I can dump into the other stone.
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