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Post by chillychinaman on Dec 15, 2017 20:17:58 GMT
While browsing the Minions section for my Legion, I got to thinking about Mercs for my Protectorate forces.
Are there any particular choices that are noticeably good with us? I know that Piper is good overall, but what are some other option, specifically the units?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Dec 15, 2017 20:59:58 GMT
On the unit front, not really. We already take one of the better Mercenary units (Idrians) as Partisans.
-Steelhead Halberdiers are a more offensive version of TFG. You won't go wrong taking them, but if you already have TFG it's hard to make the case for them. -Steelhead Riflemen are generally outclassed by Idrians, though they are cheaper. -Forge Guard have a place and are hard-hitting, but they are slow. As most of our faction is also slow and hard hitting, they don't necessarily help plug a hole we have. Pocket slams are good, though. -Devil Dogs are pretty good, actually, and can be used if you want to get cagey with pocket knockdowns. However, at 12/18, they're not cheap for what they do. I would consider combining with Zealots/Redeemers to wreck heavies. -Croe's Cutthroats compete with Idrians in role (frontline skirmishers) and Idrians generally do it better. If we had TK in faction, the Cutthroats would be great. That said, I still like them well enough. -A case can be made for Aiyana and Holt, but to get Kiss in faction, we need an Attendant Priest. An 11 point three man unit is a tough sell. -Pirates of all kinds need completely different kinds of support than we offer.
The rest of the units generally fall into that trend: being too expensive for what they bring and/or Protectorate generally having access to it already.
Solos get somewhat more interesting. -Alten Ashley is great if you want to plink Grievous Wounds onto something, but his damage output is average and he is pricey. Solid utility for us, though. -Anastasia di Bray is cheap, provides a bonus to going first, and Ambush solo sniping utility. A solid buy that can see play. Usually pushed out by Rhupert in theme, though. -Eilish Garrity is fabulous, but we have more anti upkeep tech than most factions. He's probably least useful to us, but is still dang good. -Eiryss1 has synergy with assassination-focused lists, but holy god she is expensive. And countered by prolific Shield Guards. -Taryn di la Rovissi brings Shadow Fire, which has use as well.
The rest are either specific to stuff we don't take (Pirates, Steelheads) or outclassed in one way or another (Saxon is generally a poorer version of Rhupert; Orin is beat by the Covenant).
Honestly, the Protectorate is well-rounded from a Merc standpoint. We are not generally missing things that are easy to find in Mercenary options.
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Post by killroundears on Dec 15, 2017 21:54:44 GMT
is Orin really beat by the covenant though? they seem like 2 separate pieces. Orin can offensively chain lightning (and i have sniped many a model that thought they were safe with his chain lightning), or sit in stealth and threaten arcane vortex.
the covenant has a no spells bubble it can use but that doesn't prevent the majority of spellcasting since arc nodes are the most common way to be throwing spells at your armys core. it seems like covenant is a better board bully and Orin is better defensively unless you're up against really specific pieces like butcher3
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Dec 17, 2017 3:36:56 GMT
the covenant has a no spells bubble it can use but that doesn't prevent the majority of spellcasting since arc nodes are the most common way to be throwing spells at your armys core. Don't discount the "No Spells" bubble. Only Cryx, and to a lesser extent Circle, spams Arc Nodes. You're missing out on: - Animi: Yep that's right, no more casting your Animus! - Magic abilities. Greylord Outriders got you down? Hex Hunters in your face? Covenant to the rescue! - Aggressive Warlocks: Hi Butcher3, I dare you to come in close! - Threat priority: By shoving the Covenant down your opponent's throat, even with Arc Nodes, they either need to reposition the caster way back, or divert significant resources into removing the Covenant.
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Post by killroundears on Dec 17, 2017 11:41:03 GMT
the covenant has a no spells bubble it can use but that doesn't prevent the majority of spellcasting since arc nodes are the most common way to be throwing spells at your armys core. Don't discount the "No Spells" bubble. Only Cryx, and to a lesser extent Circle, spams Arc Nodes. You're missing out on: - Animi: Yep that's right, no more casting your Animus! - Magic abilities. Greylord Outriders got you down? Hex Hunters in your face? Covenant to the rescue! - Aggressive Warlocks: Hi Butcher3, I dare you to come in close! - Threat priority: By shoving the Covenant down your opponent's throat, even with Arc Nodes, they either need to reposition the caster way back, or divert significant resources into removing the Covenant. i think its partially because im a touch inexperienced with how hard the covenant is to kill since it requires 5 separate wounding attacks, which for some lists is hard to deliver without sending in half a unit or a heavy (even then, its pretty common for standard jacks not to have 5 attacks, or for all of them to hit). i did play it recently, like yesterday and used it very offensively to just put up its no spells bubble and keep advancing forward. it zoned the enemy caster pretty well. it was only irusk1 but he actually was having a lot of trouble casting battle lust and he couldn't airburst some of my solos so okay, the covenant is pretty good. Although i will say i still think they're pretty different models with different intents even though they still belong in the anti magic category
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Dec 17, 2017 12:02:54 GMT
I agree, Covenant and Orin play different roles. And yes, a Heavy can spend 1 activation killing the Covenant. But that’s awesome, it means they spent a 10+ pt model to kill a 4 pt model that doest even contribute to combat. Funny enough, I even watched a heavy miss twice to kill it yesterday and required a 2nd model to come in...
Back to topic, as I don’t think it was mentioned yet, Piper is a key model for us given a general lack of Pathfinder. But not as necessary as MK2.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 17, 2017 21:14:54 GMT
Honestly it surprises me that Rhupert is not “partisan:Prptectorate” he works with us all the time in games
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Post by W0lfBane on Dec 17, 2017 22:39:43 GMT
Honestly it surprises me that Rhupert is not “partisan:Prptectorate” he works with us all the time in games Somebody needs to forcefully convert him. Also we need more me both worshiping mercenaries. I also think from their core idea that paladins should have been mercenaries with partisan protectorate.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 17, 2017 22:52:43 GMT
Honestly it surprises me that Rhupert is not “partisan:Prptectorate” he works with us all the time in games Somebody needs to forcefully convert him. Also we need more me both worshiping mercenaries. I also think from their core idea that paladins should have been mercenaries with partisan protectorate. Hmmm but in the fluff they only defend protectorate cities right? I don’t think they would make sense working with other mercs. As far as converting Rhupert my buddy just have me his mini crate piper and I am working on making her protectoate style. Just need wings and a halo for the Pyg
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Post by W0lfBane on Dec 18, 2017 1:20:11 GMT
Somebody needs to forcefully convert him. Also we need more me both worshiping mercenaries. I also think from their core idea that paladins should have been mercenaries with partisan protectorate. Hmmm but in the fluff they only defend protectorate cities right? I don’t think they would make sense working with other mercs. As far as converting Rhupert my buddy just have me his mini crate piper and I am working on making her protectoate style. Just need wings and a halo for the Pyg No they defend cities that worship Menoth independent if they are under the protectorate. Like a bunch are running around Khador. Also that is an adorable conversion idea
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Dec 18, 2017 7:30:33 GMT
Don't discount the "No Spells" bubble. Only Cryx, and to a lesser extent Circle, spams Arc Nodes. You're missing out on: - Animi: Yep that's right, no more casting your Animus! - Magic abilities. Greylord Outriders got you down? Hex Hunters in your face? Covenant to the rescue! - Aggressive Warlocks: Hi Butcher3, I dare you to come in close! - Threat priority: By shoving the Covenant down your opponent's throat, even with Arc Nodes, they either need to reposition the caster way back, or divert significant resources into removing the Covenant. i think its partially because im a touch inexperienced with how hard the covenant is to kill since it requires 5 separate wounding attacks, which for some lists is hard to deliver without sending in half a unit or a heavy (even then, its pretty common for standard jacks not to have 5 attacks, or for all of them to hit). i did play it recently, like yesterday and used it very offensively to just put up its no spells bubble and keep advancing forward. it zoned the enemy caster pretty well. it was only irusk1 but he actually was having a lot of trouble casting battle lust and he couldn't airburst some of my solos so okay, the covenant is pretty good. Although i will say i still think they're pretty different models with different intents even though they still belong in the anti magic category Just remember that someone like Eiryss1 or Kell gets around the damage roll and just deals 3 damage to it. This will catch many people off guard.
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Post by dicebedamned on Dec 18, 2017 13:02:55 GMT
I like to take Gorman too. Been running him in CW and his rust bomb just tips the dmg output from nearly wrecking a heavy with a Crusader to wreaking a heavy with a Crusader.
I quite like Kell & alten for anti hordes lists.
Taryn with Kreoss1 'pop n drop' is amazing, and anastasia in Guardians has netted me a few ambush assassinations (bring her on the board edge, hit the caster with the ability that lets a unit move, move your ambushing daughters, activate daughters and murder enemy caster.)
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Dec 19, 2017 22:36:07 GMT
i think its partially because im a touch inexperienced with how hard the covenant is to kill since it requires 5 separate wounding attacks, which for some lists is hard to deliver without sending in half a unit or a heavy (even then, its pretty common for standard jacks not to have 5 attacks, or for all of them to hit). i did play it recently, like yesterday and used it very offensively to just put up its no spells bubble and keep advancing forward. it zoned the enemy caster pretty well. it was only irusk1 but he actually was having a lot of trouble casting battle lust and he couldn't airburst some of my solos so okay, the covenant is pretty good. Although i will say i still think they're pretty different models with different intents even though they still belong in the anti magic category Just remember that someone like Eiryss1 or Kell gets around the damage roll and just deals 3 damage to it. This will catch many people off guard. Kell can take out the book by himself in one round if he can get off a Dual Shot on it since he effectively just marks off 6 auto boxes of damage.
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Post by gobber on Dec 19, 2017 22:42:39 GMT
Thorn Gun Mages under Malekus deserve a mention. They're perfectly able to use buffs from Hand of Judgment or Eye of Truth which makes their feated fireshots shred heavies. Two units will nearly down an arc-shielded stormwall (avg45); with Aiyana too they can shoot one off the table themselves.
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Post by dicebedamned on Dec 21, 2017 13:35:48 GMT
Just remember that someone like Eiryss1 or Kell gets around the damage roll and just deals 3 damage to it. This will catch many people off guard. Kell can take out the book by himself in one round if he can get off a Dual Shot on it since he effectively just marks off 6 auto boxes of damage. Not sure this is right. The book can only ever suffer 1 dmg from an attack regardless, so even with dual attack, you are looking at 2 dmg. Its what makes the book such a good tank for contesting multiple zones.
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