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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 19, 2017 18:28:23 GMT
If they fix Scattergunners, Highwaymen, scouts, and have a slight buff to both of the artillery guns I could see it being much more paletable. Right now, all of the units have a similar issue, low accuracy, low range, low survivability. Just...so bad... I think Pyg Lookouts fix a lot of the accuracy issues, and improve Kriel Company. Gunny's snipe fixes range and accuracy. Calandra fixes accuracy and suvivability issues since our DEF 13 troops usually have ranged weapons. Otherwise the defensive stats are a bit low, but not any worse than most of our one wound troll infantry. Tough is supposed to compensate for that. I think Scattergunners are decent, if a little squishy. They have a good threat,RAT and POW given that they have sprays. The units that really need work are: Highwaymen, lets face it RNG 8 POW 10 is terrible and Gunfighter is pretty useless on a RAT 5 unit. They need at least RNG 10 POW 12 RAT 6 do be a worthwhile consideration. Bushwackers, these guys are supposed to be the Sharpshooters of the Troll forces as their fluff describes. Instead we get 10 RAT4 shots at 14" which is pretty garbage to be honest. I would like to see the RAT increase to at least 6 and even then I feel like they still need something extra, maybe Sniper would be too much, but probably not in Trolls. Burrowers, these guys need a complete overhaul, Low Spd, Mat, Rat, Def, Arm, Low RNG on their guns and a high points cost. They just don't do anything anymore. Give them back their old rules, they were fine, all the cries of broken were just people that didn't know how to block charges to beasts/jacks properly. Scouts, need 1" melee, a max unit size of 10 and probably a RNG increase on their Axes from 6" to 8". Maybe give them Prey to make them an interesting choice and differentiate them from Northkin Raiders. The artillery is slowly becoming more useful as infantry comes back into the meta, although they could probably use AD to prevent them having to run twice to get into position. Pyg Ambushers do help with the low rat issues a bit but no still need to sacrifice a unit to get the Mark the Target going. I think the biggest issue for Kriel Company though is that our ranged infantry was designed to operate in tandem with our melee infantry in a 1-2 punch which just isn't possible in the theme and is the main reason why the theme exacerbates the problems with the ranged units.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Dec 20, 2017 0:43:38 GMT
2x Scattergunners units simply to plow the road, for a Jackhammering King. Although I own two units of SGs, I don't currently own 2x SG Command Attachments.
Kriel Company Madrak 1 [+29] - Glacier King [35] - Mountain King [36] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [5] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Scattergunners (min) [8] - Scattergunner Officer & Standard [4] Scattergunners (min) [8] - Scattergunner Officer & Standard [4]
I have tried a single maxed-Scattergunner unit to good effect with Grim1 (Feat = huge RAT fix) + MtKing/Bomber/WW in Kriel Company. MtK was my only significant melee threat (I didn't like that).
If Hooch Hauler was allowed in KC, Horgle2 + HH might be a thing...
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Post by Trollock on Dec 20, 2017 6:49:20 GMT
Highwaymen, lets face it RNG 8 POW 10 is terrible and Gunfighter is pretty useless on a RAT 5 unit. They need at least RNG 10 POW 12 RAT 6 do be a worthwhile consideration. Though i totally agree that HWM are a bit underpowered, this suggestion is basically insane. Make them RNG 10 and they are a fine choice. Giving them +2 POW AND RAT 6 to boot (remember they have 2 shots each) and we are just wish listing. Their problems are that they cant really reach enough stuff with their guns, and that they are worthless when engaged. Being worthless when engaged is acceptable to me, since they are a ranged unit. Most ranged units are worthless when engaged. Giving them a 10" RNG would allow them to reach more things. Oh, they still need to combine 2 man CRAs, but that means that a 10 man unit does 10 shots with RAT 7 POW 12. That is well above what one expects from a ranged unit. The problem is that they can not leverage those 10 shots.
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Post by greenjello on Dec 20, 2017 14:32:25 GMT
I agree with Trollock. I've never understood RNG10 on the Highwaymen, but the rest seems a bit OP. Two attacks is very nice, particularly for their price, I suspect the rest is for balance reasons.
I'd also like to see Bushwackers go to RAT5, but RAT4 isn't terrible on a cheapish unit with RNG14, so they can aim.
Also a bit surprised the scouts are RNG0.5" on their hand weapons, I thought the default for Trolls was 1". Pretty much all units that don't have a backup melee weapon are 1". Could be an oversight, or it could be to reduce the threat range of a unit with ambush, or balance out Gang.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 20, 2017 14:34:49 GMT
I agree with Trollock. I've never understood RNG10 on the Highwaymen, but the rest seems a bit OP. Two attacks is very nice, particularly for their price, I suspect the rest is for balance reasons. I'd also like to see Bushwackers go to RAT5, but RAT4 isn't terrible on a cheapish unit with RNG14, so they can aim. Also a bit surprised the scouts are RNG0.5" on their hand weapons, I thought the default for Trolls was 1". Pretty much all units that don't have a backup melee weapon are 1". Could be an oversight, or it could be to reduce the threat range of a unit with ambush, or balance out Gang. hohoho. Scouts dont even have ambush
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Dec 20, 2017 14:37:05 GMT
I agree with Trollock. I've never understood RNG10 on the Highwaymen, but the rest seems a bit OP. Two attacks is very nice, particularly for their price, I suspect the rest is for balance reasons. I'd also like to see Bushwackers go to RAT5, but RAT4 isn't terrible on a cheapish unit with RNG14, so they can aim. Also a bit surprised the scouts are RNG0.5" on their hand weapons, I thought the default for Trolls was 1". Pretty much all units that don't have a backup melee weapon are 1". Could be an oversight, or it could be to reduce the threat range of a unit with ambush, or balance out Gang. hohoho. Scouts dont even have ambush I Remember, in a game, my Cygnar opponent asked for the melee range of my Storm Troll.
When I said 0.5 inches he literally stopped tilted his head and said "Sorry dude, they really have Firetrucked up Trolls, haven't they?"
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Post by Trollock on Dec 20, 2017 14:39:59 GMT
hohoho. Scouts dont even have ambush I Remember, in a game, my Cygnar opponent asked for the melee range of my Storm Troll.
When I said 0.5 inches he literally stopped tilted his head and said "Sorry dude, they really have Firetrucked up Trolls, haven't they?"
That seems in line with other lights that do not have actual weapons though... Weapon ranges seem almost entirely based on how the model looks.
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Post by greenjello on Dec 20, 2017 17:21:52 GMT
I Remember, in a game, my Cygnar opponent asked for the melee range of my Storm Troll.
When I said 0.5 inches he literally stopped tilted his head and said "Sorry dude, they really have Firetrucked up Trolls, haven't they?"
That seems in line with other lights that do not have actual weapons though... Weapon ranges seem almost entirely based on how the model looks. Yeah, Cygnar lights without actual weapons, like the Minuteman and Sentinel are also at 0.5". Not sure what I was thinking with the Ambush comment.
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Post by ninjastars on Dec 20, 2017 18:06:35 GMT
Just a random comment on KC lists. One of the big problems KC lists have is the lack of a good melee heavy. Its good to keep in mind that wrongeye and snapjaw can now be used in the theme to plug that hole. It means losing out on that third solo, but I've found I don't necessarily miss the third solo in KC that much.
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Post by greenjello on Dec 20, 2017 19:13:44 GMT
Just a random comment on KC lists. One of the big problems KC lists have is the lack of a good melee heavy. Its good to keep in mind that wrongeye and snapjaw can now be used in the theme to plug that hole. It means losing out on that third solo, but I've found I don't necessarily miss the third solo in KC that much. I don't understand why Boomhowler isn't acceptable in this situation.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 20, 2017 19:24:08 GMT
Also a bit surprised the scouts are RNG0.5" on their hand weapons, I thought the default for Trolls was 1". Pretty much all units that don't have a backup melee weapon are 1". Could be an oversight, or it could be to reduce the threat range of a unit with ambush, or balance out Gang. Except that Scouts do not have access to Ambush so the 0.5" melee range is pretty useless on a medium based unit. EDIT: Beaten to it.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 20, 2017 19:26:48 GMT
That seems in line with other lights that do not have actual weapons though... Weapon ranges seem almost entirely based on how the model looks. Yeah, Cygnar lights without actual weapons, like the Minuteman and Sentinel are also at 0.5". Not sure what I was thinking with the Ambush comment. Pretty sure you were thinking about the time in Mk2 where a theme list gave them ambush.
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Post by ninjastars on Dec 20, 2017 19:27:14 GMT
Just a random comment on KC lists. One of the big problems KC lists have is the lack of a good melee heavy. Its good to keep in mind that wrongeye and snapjaw can now be used in the theme to plug that hole. It means losing out on that third solo, but I've found I don't necessarily miss the third solo in KC that much. I don't understand why Boomhowler isn't acceptable in this situation. He’s not the same thing? One is a melee heavy warbeast and the other is basic melee infantry. If you charge snapjaw at a warbeast, it will probably die, if you charge boomhowler and co at warbeast, it will not.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 20, 2017 22:18:04 GMT
Sorry, but both of our artillery units are terrible. They can't even get into the fight until it's too late and then they do to little. We are literally better off with a second Fell Caller or Braylen for a freebie or a Razorback if paying 5 points.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 21, 2017 0:06:55 GMT
Sorry, but both of our artillery units are terrible. They can't even get into the fight until it's too late and then they do to little. We are literally better off with a second Fell Caller or Braylen for a freebie or a Razorback if paying 5 points. This is true. RNG 12 is the downfall of the Thumper when it can only deploy normally and has SPD4. I think it either needs AD or RNG14-16. Its only 1 non boostable shot after all. The Pummeler has a good RNG but it has the same deployment and speed issues as the Thumper. I also think the AOE could be increased to 4" without an issue.
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