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Post by Trollock on Dec 13, 2017 11:29:51 GMT
Some nifty updates there, most of which does not affect us. I was holding up hope for 1 COST Swarm, but no dice... There are some good things though. Croak RaidersCheaper and better. In PoD you want to spend 75 points of beasts, and now you can buy croaks and a maxed stone for 28 points. Our casters with 28+ warbeast points can thus have a unit of croaks in PoD without being really hampered by it. Those with 29+ could have a min stone, croaks and Lanyssa. This is a great thing as it adds versatility to the list! Ill have to finish painting my croaks i brought back in MK2... They still have not seen the table in MK3, but this pushes them over the edge to be playable imo. Lynus & EdreaAdds a very useful utility to the unit. Cloud walls mess with almost any list, and removing them is super good in that particular match up. However, an Arc Node on Haley, High Reclaimer or what ever possibly allows them to remove Edrea before she gets to remove the clouds... Seems nifty against the Bane theme too, though the same problem applies. I probably will not buy them still. Mist SpeakerThis is very nice, especially in SotN where you do not have the stone scribe elder to remove incorporeal. It is also nice tech against the cloud walls, and i think this is safer, easier to apply and more universally useful. It is also cheaper. This probably should see some play. You do not like Gremlin Swarms? Have your Trogg speak to your GK and blow 3 of them off the board in one activation! Croak HunterI actually really like this. The CH will compete with the Gremlin Swarm as a flag scorer. The swarm is harder to kill, but the Hunter can probably contribute during the battle while sitting on your flag. Having him kill a couple of infantry dudes over the game can help your scenario play for sure. ThrullgI still wont play him probably, but this is a vast improvement. Who knows? he might actually be able to remove an upkeep once every couple of games now... Small changes, yes, but all of them seem good for the game, good for list diversity and fun over all. Well done PP!  |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724 
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Post by Arcaux on Dec 13, 2017 12:17:05 GMT
Really interesting stuff. I think Haley3 and Grymkin are two of the hardest matches for us at the moment and there are a few options that might really help here.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 13, 2017 18:11:40 GMT
Really interesting stuff. I think Haley3 and Grymkin are two of the hardest matches for us at the moment and there are a few options that might really help here. Really, issues with Grymkin? At least when I've run Doom2/Gunnbjorn I have NEVER had issues with Grymkin. Incidentally Gunny does great into Haley3 as well. |
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Dec 13, 2017 20:43:03 GMT
I've always appreciated the Thrullg's ability to auto-kill Hex Hunters and their ilk, when placed in the right position, easier now with the combo AD-Prowl-Pathfinder. 6pts to 5pts is good. I may see another miraculous/memorable tourney win via him (Thrullg free strike against an opposing charging Kreoss3 against Grim1, stripped his Focus, EBDT's ate him, horse and all...) Jealous of the Warbeast Pathfinder/Parry on a stick that is the new improved Witch Doctor. Of course I play Minions also so, Ghostly Dracodile?  'Baby steps' for Croak Raiders...Horgle2 has some new friends (Hooch Hauler + Croaks) Mist Speaker seems like a great addition to ranged-centric lists that don't luck out during a tourney (ie when there's no option for Magic Weapon Objective). Especially good as a specialist in an ADR option. |
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 13, 2017 20:52:32 GMT
Some nifty updates there, most of which does not affect us. I was holding up hope for 1 COST Swarm, but no dice... There are some good things though. Croak RaidersCheaper and better. In PoD you want to spend 75 points of beasts, and now you can buy croaks and a maxed stone for 28 points. Our casters with 28+ warbeast points can thus have a unit of croaks in PoD without being really hampered by it. Those with 29+ could have a min stone, croaks and Lanyssa. This is a great thing as it adds versatility to the list! Ill have to finish painting my croaks i brought back in MK2... They still have not seen the table in MK3, but this pushes them over the edge to be playable imo. Lynus & EdreaAdds a very useful utility to the unit. Cloud walls mess with almost any list, and removing them is super good in that particular match up. However, an Arc Node on Haley, High Reclaimer or what ever possibly allows them to remove Edrea before she gets to remove the clouds... Seems nifty against the Bane theme too, though the same problem applies. I probably will not buy them still. Mist SpeakerThis is very nice, especially in SotN where you do not have the stone scribe elder to remove incorporeal. It is also nice tech against the cloud walls, and i think this is safer, easier to apply and more universally useful. It is also cheaper. This probably should see some play. You do not like Gremlin Swarms? Have your Trogg speak to your GK and blow 3 of them off the board in one activation! Croak HunterI actually really like this. The CH will compete with the Gremlin Swarm as a flag scorer. The swarm is harder to kill, but the Hunter can probably contribute during the battle while sitting on your flag. Having him kill a couple of infantry dudes over the game can help your scenario play for sure. ThrullgI still wont play him probably, but this is a vast improvement. Who knows? he might actually be able to remove an upkeep once every couple of games now... Small changes, yes, but all of them seem good for the game, good for list diversity and fun over all. Well done PP! Linus & Exdrea seem decent until you realise that you need the ability to remove clouds is a *Attack so you need to target a model inside a cloud to remove it. Your opponents models are probably behind the clouds so you need to run one of your own models in there to target. Plan accordingly. The Mist Speaker is a huge problem solver for SotN lists and Trolls in general. The Eyeless sight bit is the most important here, allowing us to deal with stealthed heavies and problem solos that we have been at the mercy of foe too long. The Thrullg is still a disappointment when you compare him to Eilish who has far more utility. All he does is strip upkeeps with melee attacks. Your opponent is likely not going to put models in his charge threat so he is relegated to stripping upkeeps off of friendly models which Eilish does without killing the friendly model in the first place. He really needs a complete rework from the ground up as he has no useful role at the moment. |
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 13, 2017 21:16:00 GMT
grabsnikk Edrea has True Sight, so she ignores clouds when determining LoS. Thrullg is a 5 point combat solo that causes disruption. He can probably tie up a heavy jack for a couple rounds if you do it right. Dispell is cool as well, but He seems to be a disruption bot. Probably better in minions where he gets better support though. 3 Disruption attacks on a stick is pretty darn good IMO.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 13, 2017 23:22:43 GMT
grabsnikk Edrea has True Sight, so she ignores clouds when determining LoS. Thrullg is a 5 point combat solo that causes disruption. He can probably tie up a heavy jack for a couple rounds if you do it right. Dispell is cool as well, but He seems to be a disruption bot. Probably better in minions where he gets better support though. 3 Disruption attacks on a stick is pretty darn good IMO. Missed that she has True Sight, that makes her so muvh better. Yes I suppose you could use the Thrullg as a disruption bot, althoigh since his melee range got rwduced to 1" its pretty likely that you will only be i range to disrupt 1 jack and then he probably dies in your opponents turn. Definitely better in Minions than the other Hordes factions as they have better solos which offer mkre utility. |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Dec 13, 2017 23:41:28 GMT
Really interesting stuff. I think Haley3 and Grymkin are two of the hardest matches for us at the moment and there are a few options that might really help here. Really, issues with Grymkin? At least when I've run Doom2/Gunnbjorn I have NEVER had issues with Grymkin. Incidentally Gunny does great into Haley3 as well. Doomy2 is probably our best caster into Grymkin, but he's very boring to play, offers little outplay potential and is terrible in the Cygnar matchup. You take Gunnbjorn into Cygnar, but that honestly doesn't fly in the European meta. They eat him alive. You build for your meta and so your advice makes sense in NA, I appreciate that. I hope you don't take that the wrong way, as I don't really have a nice way to say it. |
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 14, 2017 0:56:51 GMT
Typically I'd drop Gunnbjorn over Doom2 for Grymkin unless their pair was double heavy brick, actually. Ranged poke/assassination that doesn't care about their def 13 (guided fire) to effectively do damage, combined with RFP makes it feel pretty consistently in my favor.
What beats Gunnbjorn in EU? I know EU tends to play very differently from NA (more Cygnar) but I can't remember the last time I saw a Cygnar pair that didn't make me want to drop Gunnbjorn.
Edit: and no offense taken, I'm not sure I agree with your sentiment but I can't make authoritative statements about a meta I haven't personally experienced.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 14, 2017 4:59:14 GMT
Typically I'd drop Gunnbjorn over Doom2 for Grymkin unless their pair was double heavy brick, actually. Ranged poke/assassination that doesn't care about their def 13 (guided fire) to effectively do damage, combined with RFP makes it feel pretty consistently in my favor. What beats Gunnbjorn in EU? I know EU tends to play very differently from NA (more Cygnar) but I can't remember the last time I saw a Cygnar pair that didn't make me want to drop Gunnbjorn. Edit: and no offense taken, I'm not sure I agree with your sentiment but I can't make authoritative statements about a meta I haven't personally experienced. I suppose that the Krielstone still dies to electroleaps even if Gunnys feat is up. Or maybe its because of the Haley3 cloud wall, which he can now play into a lot better with the Bog Trog Mist Speaker. |
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Post by Trollock on Dec 14, 2017 7:50:11 GMT
Typically I'd drop Gunnbjorn over Doom2 for Grymkin unless their pair was double heavy brick, actually. Ranged poke/assassination that doesn't care about their def 13 (guided fire) to effectively do damage, combined with RFP makes it feel pretty consistently in my favor. What beats Gunnbjorn in EU? I know EU tends to play very differently from NA (more Cygnar) but I can't remember the last time I saw a Cygnar pair that didn't make me want to drop Gunnbjorn. Edit: and no offense taken, I'm not sure I agree with your sentiment but I can't make authoritative statements about a meta I haven't personally experienced. I suppose that the Krielstone still dies to electroleaps even if Gunnys feat is up. Or maybe its because of the Haley3 cloud wall, which he can now play into a lot better with the Bog Trog Mist Speaker. The kriel stone only dies to e-leaps if he is the closest model to any of your models. Place your surrounding models so that attacks that hit them will not bounce to the stone. Granted that lightning generator is way harder to account for, but that is more uncommon and even then they need to roll an unboosted 6 to tough the stone, so its 50/50 at best, and even if they do remove the stone on the feat, they probably wont do much else and you can punch back. They can place a pod with the stormwall, at least theoretically, and bounce to the stone, but then that stormwall is awfully close, and they better do a LOT of work or you will punch back harder and still be ahead. It is not like Gunnbjorn hard counters everything cygnar does, but he does do a better job of playing against them than any one i can think of. You probably will not find another caster that does a better job in trolls. You get to play a game, and that is all one can(and should) hope for imo. |
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