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Post by toggie on Dec 7, 2017 23:21:01 GMT
When I started playing warmachine again a few years back, I swore to play only ADR casters. I would pick two and use that to concentrate my play as only play once or twice a month.
Therefore I was excited when the new ADR dropped yesterday, but gutted that I only own Ragnor. Also from a initial look, they all want to play in Power of Dhunia, which doesn't make it easy to get a good list pair.
So before I drop £100 on new casters and stuff I would be grateful if I could get some comments on the lists below. Plus I'm not playing very much at the moment (second baby just arrived, so if anyone wants to try the lists for me id be very grateful to hear how you get on!
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Post by toggie on Dec 7, 2017 23:22:17 GMT
Firstly Ragnor. As he has been on the adr, I've a few games with ragnor already in PoD. I think he may have a delivery feat for Band of Heroes so here is a hard hitting BoH list as a potential pair to a Pod list
Theme: Band of Heroes 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 40 / 40 Specialist
Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster - WB: +30 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Brawler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Trollkin Champion Hero - PC: 0 Horthol, Long Rider Hero - PC: 8 - Horthol, Long Rider Hero (Continued) Saxon Orrik - PC: 4
Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5 Trollkin Warders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
SPECIALISTS Troll Basher - PC: 7 Troll Basher - PC: 7 Fennblade Kithkar - PC: 4 Trollkin Fennblades - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2 Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer - Officer & Drummer: 5
Basic battlegroup to get Earth blessing and up to PS 20 on the brawler with pulverizer and stone. Army would just run at you with pathfinder from fell caller and Saxon. Bashers are in specialists for animus and fennblades to replace champs or long riders if necessary.
I don't know if there is anyone else on the adr who would want to run BoH so this is my best shot
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Post by toggie on Dec 7, 2017 23:23:32 GMT
Next Kolgrimma
No experience here so thoughts are use clouds to deliver heavies at long range. Axers in to get redundancy of rush plus thresher plus cursed fate seems good.
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 38 / 40 Specialist
Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19
Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
SPECIALISTS Storm Troll - PC: 9 Pyre Troll - PC: 8 Dire Troll Brawler - PC: 16 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
Ideal would be brawler and gremlins instead of bomber but don't own those models yet. Bomber could also be gobbers and lights or swap an Axer for a light in certain match ups. I'm aware shamans help cloud wall but don't want to buy them as yet.
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Post by toggie on Dec 7, 2017 23:25:22 GMT
Next Borka. As Kolgrimma is in Po d, I'm going for Storm here with Borka. This would be an anti melee brick with borkas feat and then hit back with angry trolls.
Theme: Storm of the North 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army 39 / 40 Specialist
Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws - WB: +27 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Rök - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Pyre Troll - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Feralgeist - PC: 2 Horthol, Long Rider Hero - PC: 8 - Horthol, Long Rider Hero (Continued)
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5
SPECIALISTS Troll Bouncer - PC: 9 Trollkin Champion Hero - PC: 5 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2 Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
So here going for deliver fire eaters long riders and either champs or bears. Plus get Borka to PS 21 with Stone Pyre and Defiant rage.
Swaps are Bouncer for Pyre for anti knockdown. At 10 points bears could be swapped for Horthol and feralgiest or both units for champs and include gobbers. Champ hero seems out of place so any suggestions are welcome. I like the theme but this is the list I have fewest models for and they are expensive so would like some feedback.
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Post by toggie on Dec 7, 2017 23:26:10 GMT
Finally Grim. I really don't know what to do here. I think he wants mulg and so PoD is what I've gone for but is it too similar for Kolgrimma
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army 40 / 40 Specialist
Grim Angus - WB: +29 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15
Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0
Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
SPECIALISTS Mountain King - PC: 36 Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 4
King would swap in for bomber Axer and knot. Lanyssa doesn't really fit well. Idea would be to deliver feat and shoot stuff down then send in Mauler and Mulg to finish. Least excited about this list but I do have everything except for grim1.
There you go. Sorry for long thread but wanted to share my dojo. Hope it's useful. I feel as though this Adr is a group of good casters who all want to do the same thing so any ideas are welcome.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 8, 2017 7:21:15 GMT
Firstly Ragnor. As he has been on the adr, I've a few games with ragnor already in PoD. I think he may have a delivery feat for Band of Heroes so here is a hard hitting BoH list as a potential pair to a Pod list Theme: Band of Heroes 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 40 / 40 Specialist Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster - WB: +30 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Brawler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Trollkin Champion Hero - PC: 0 Horthol, Long Rider Hero - PC: 8 - Horthol, Long Rider Hero (Continued) Saxon Orrik - PC: 4 Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5 Trollkin Warders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 SPECIALISTS Troll Basher - PC: 7 Troll Basher - PC: 7 Fennblade Kithkar - PC: 4 Trollkin Fennblades - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2 Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer - Officer & Drummer: 5 Basic battlegroup to get Earth blessing and up to PS 20 on the brawler with pulverizer and stone. Army would just run at you with pathfinder from fell caller and Saxon. Bashers are in specialists for animus and fennblades to replace champs or long riders if necessary. I don't know if there is anyone else on the adr who would want to run BoH so this is my best shot Why do you value Earths Blessing here? Ragnor is already steady, and even if the other parts of EB are nice to have, that is usually the reason one wants earths blessing. You could consider getting a Bomber or a GK in the battle group, to have some shooting. Having no guns in a list opens you up to opponents being way too brave with their caster, but with a Bomber or a GK, they have to respect the fact that Ragnor could knock them down and shoot them a bit. Ragnor is more often played in PoD, but this seems like a reasonable alternative. Delivering things like champions and longriders could allow you to grind out a victory in the end. Is it worth considering Lanyssa instead of Saxon? You already have access to pathfinder, and allowing your champions to threaten further than the average thing could help you not have to feat too early. Same for longriders. They are sort of fast, but nothing spectacular. With +2" they become very fast. If they get to alpha before you feat you are probably doing well.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 8, 2017 7:27:10 GMT
Next Kolgrimma No experience here so thoughts are use clouds to deliver heavies at long range. Axers in to get redundancy of rush plus thresher plus cursed fate seems good. Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 38 / 40 Specialist Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 SPECIALISTS Storm Troll - PC: 9 Pyre Troll - PC: 8 Dire Troll Brawler - PC: 16 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2 Ideal would be brawler and gremlins instead of bomber but don't own those models yet. Bomber could also be gobbers and lights or swap an Axer for a light in certain match ups. I'm aware shamans help cloud wall but don't want to buy them as yet. I think i would drop the second axer for a light and swamp gobbers. I really would have liked to have something like Brigands or Croak Raiders as a minion option, though that requires you to minimize the stone to still get 3 free things. Being able to switch in a full unit can transform the list in a way that switching between different elemental lights does not. Having The swamp gobbers to score in your "beast heavy" setup though is very nice. This may be a case where having a unit of runeshapers that you switch in where the scenario looks favorable for it is a good thing. Then you could have a big minion unit alongside that as well. Both Coraks and Brigands really like the -2 DEF you can provide.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 8, 2017 7:30:54 GMT
Next Borka. As Kolgrimma is in Po d, I'm going for Storm here with Borka. This would be an anti melee brick with borkas feat and then hit back with angry trolls. Theme: Storm of the North 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army 39 / 40 Specialist Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws - WB: +27 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Rök - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Pyre Troll - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Feralgeist - PC: 2 Horthol, Long Rider Hero - PC: 8 - Horthol, Long Rider Hero (Continued) Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5 SPECIALISTS Troll Bouncer - PC: 9 Trollkin Champion Hero - PC: 5 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2 Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 So here going for deliver fire eaters long riders and either champs or bears. Plus get Borka to PS 21 with Stone Pyre and Defiant rage. Swaps are Bouncer for Pyre for anti knockdown. At 10 points bears could be swapped for Horthol and feralgiest or both units for champs and include gobbers. Champ hero seems out of place so any suggestions are welcome. I like the theme but this is the list I have fewest models for and they are expensive so would like some feedback. Looks pretty cool. I am not such a big fan of Horthol as you. Lots of points spent, though he isnt really bad. Id love to have a unit of kriel warriors to be able to swap in. They ought to be super obnoxious with the feat against some lists. Kill them, and you get stationary. Dont kill them and you accomplish nothing at all. Seems awesome
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Post by Trollock on Dec 8, 2017 7:37:04 GMT
Finally Grim. I really don't know what to do here. I think he wants mulg and so PoD is what I've gone for but is it too similar for Kolgrimma Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army 40 / 40 Specialist Grim Angus - WB: +29 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 SPECIALISTS Mountain King - PC: 36 Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 4 King would swap in for bomber Axer and knot. Lanyssa doesn't really fit well. Idea would be to deliver feat and shoot stuff down then send in Mauler and Mulg to finish. Least excited about this list but I do have everything except for grim1. There you go. Sorry for long thread but wanted to share my dojo. Hope it's useful. I feel as though this Adr is a group of good casters who all want to do the same thing so any ideas are welcome. Grim and Kolgrimma are similar casters and probably should not pair together. It is fine that they are similar imo. I experimented with a setup that had no kriel stone a while ago. You could have Croak Raiders in the reserve and swap out the knot and the stone, and tadaa! you now have a super glass cannon build. It will own melee lists even more than the current setup. The rest of the ADR could be something like a brawler if you are up against anti shooting, you could swap him in rather than a bomber. Complement with some small point options to round things off. Lanyssa is not needed imo. You already charge far enough that she will likely not reach to land her hunters mark. She could be something else like a gremlin swarm to be able to switch out a Bomber for a Brawler.
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Post by toggie on Dec 8, 2017 16:19:51 GMT
Next Kolgrimma No experience here so thoughts are use clouds to deliver heavies at long range. Axers in to get redundancy of rush plus thresher plus cursed fate seems good. Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 38 / 40 Specialist Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 SPECIALISTS Storm Troll - PC: 9 Pyre Troll - PC: 8 Dire Troll Brawler - PC: 16 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2 Ideal would be brawler and gremlins instead of bomber but don't own those models yet. Bomber could also be gobbers and lights or swap an Axer for a light in certain match ups. I'm aware shamans help cloud wall but don't want to buy them as yet. I think i would drop the second axer for a light and swamp gobbers. I really would have liked to have something like Brigands or Croak Raiders as a minion option, though that requires you to minimize the stone to still get 3 free things. Being able to switch in a full unit can transform the list in a way that switching between different elemental lights does not. Having The swamp gobbers to score in your "beast heavy" setup though is very nice. This may be a case where having a unit of runeshapers that you switch in where the scenario looks favorable for it is a good thing. Then you could have a big minion unit alongside that as well. Both Coraks and Brigands really like the -2 DEF you can provide. Thanks you for the comments. As swamp gobbers are a unit too so they would have to come out for the big minion unit. I see what your saying though, I just don't own those minions at the moment. Runeshapers instead of the storm troll I agree with and are more affordable affordable in the real world.
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Post by toggie on Dec 8, 2017 16:44:18 GMT
Thank you for your comments on all the lists. I think I'll change my Kolgrimma list based on your advice and get the stuff I need for her, play her for 3 months and then move on to Borka when I can afford the Northkin stuff.
I think I'll skip Grim this time and try Ragnor BoH as the pair to kolgrimma in the meantime. I'll put in a bomber as you say for ranged. The only beast that fits in his battlegroup then would be an impaler, but how about a slag troll for armour cracking?
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Post by Trollock on Dec 8, 2017 19:24:30 GMT
Thank you for your comments on all the lists. I think I'll change my Kolgrimma list based on your advice and get the stuff I need for her, play her for 3 months and then move on to Borka when I can afford the Northkin stuff. I think I'll skip Grim this time and try Ragnor BoH as the pair to kolgrimma in the meantime. I'll put in a bomber as you say for ranged. The only beast that fits in his battlegroup then would be an impaler, but how about a slag troll for armour cracking? Slag sounds ok to me.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 8, 2017 19:45:52 GMT
Honestly, I think that Grim is going to be a LOT easier to learn than Kolgrimma, and you can always find a Grim model for cheap on eBay. Seriously, like as little as $9-10 USD shipped. If you're sure you are not interested in Grim, that's fine, but I think he's sorely underrated and several of us here can give you some pointers. His design has an elegant simplicity to it that I really like. Grim is often very strong, especially in cases where most of our warlocks can really struggle, like against Irusk with Kayazy or many Legion armies. I do like this list: conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0b590rc6jp0hjqj67d6R0l0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Grim 1) Grim Angus [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Mountain King [36] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] The last 5 points float a bit but I think I will try Eilish next time. Sometimes I minimize the Krielstone and that makes 8 points for 2x Northkin Shamans. But yeah, this covers just about everything he really wants.
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Post by trout on Dec 8, 2017 21:33:31 GMT
I like the look of that Grim 1 list BFT.
What does it NOT want to see across the table? Looks like maybe a lot of heavy shooting would be bad.
Great in to a lot of melee lists I can think of though. And with the Shaman that's a lot of sprays for infantry...
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 9, 2017 3:14:39 GMT
Honestly, I think that Grim is going to be a LOT easier to learn than Kolgrimma, and you can always find a Grim model for cheap on eBay. Seriously, like as little as $9-10 USD shipped. If you're sure you are not interested in Grim, that's fine, but I think he's sorely underrated and several of us here can give you some pointers. His design has an elegant simplicity to it that I really like. Grim is often very strong, especially in cases where most of our warlocks can really struggle, like against Irusk with Kayazy or many Legion armies. Grim1 is really great at shutting down melee lists with fast high defence models. With a few guns he can put a serious hurt on melee lists. His feat works well in SotN, Bears are great because people try to spread out to avoid the feat, allowing the Bears to ambush and charge stuff easily. Return fire is slso a great spell to cast on the Hooch Hauler every turn as enemies never want to give you a fully boosted 4" AOE in their turn. Kolgrima on the other hand shuts down ranged lists very well and helps to deliver both infantry and beasts with a fantastic toolbox. I think they are a good pair that is worth trying out.
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