Post by elladan52 on Dec 4, 2017 14:25:52 GMT
I absolutely love these guys. I love them so much.
Here is the list where I have had the most success with Destors:
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Kaelyssa - Dawnguard
Theme: Legions of Dawn
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kaelyssa, The Night's Whisper - WJ: +29
- Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Harpy - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Harpy - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 0
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - PC: 0
Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
- Soulless Escort - PC: 1
Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
- Soulless Escort - PC: 1
Dawnguard Destors - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
THEME: Legions of Dawn
They fit perfectly into this list for a few reasons:
1) They are largely immune to certain infantry clearing attacks that threaten sentinels. In this case, I'm thinking of auto-point effects and things like electroleaps. Sentinels are fairly resistant to e-leaps as is, but the difference between needing an 8 and needing a 12 to kill is big.
2) They threaten 13" with their lances un-assisted. In my testing of previous lists, I found that though I could protect my precious sentinels for a turn with Kaelyssa's feat, if the opponent had fast infantry or cavalry they could often back up and wait out the turn, or be within walk+attack range of the sentinels which would require them to also minifeat during the feat which is not ideal. Some sort of threat projection is needed. I tried nyss and found them to not be able to do enough work against the targets that would threaten the sentinels and they were very easy to clear. The threat range and relative durability of the Destors makes them a perfect fit.
3) They force the opponent to commit quality attacks to kill. If I play it correctly, my opponent needs to choose between killing sentinels and killing destors, and it's not an easy choice to make.
4) The Scyir solves all kinds of positioning problems, and let's you do some pretty funky stuff with large-based cav that will surprise both you and your opponents.
For all these reasons, I love Destors in this list.
But how do I use them to maximum effect? At 4 pts per model, they need to be getting a good amount of work done to be worth it. Below are my rules of engagement for our underrated cavalry, but first let's review their rules and abilities:
Assault - where most people slip up
Cavalry - awesome
Gunfighter - cool
Lance - not as bad as people think
Quick work - the money maker
Reposition 3" - great
Elladan's Destor Rules of Engagement:
1) DO NOT ASSAULT
If it's anything short of a warnoun or 8 box medium infantry DO NOT ASSAULT - that's a fun rule that throws chip damage on hard targets and screws you over every other time. If you kill your target with the assault you lose out on the most valuable rule - Quick Work.
2) Always be looking for impact attacks
You need to be looking for opportunities to kill multiple models or putting as much damage on a single model as possible to get value out of the destors. Against most units, you should be able to impact at least one model on your way to your charge target - just make sure you position in a way that lets you make your charge attack even if you fail the impact attack. Once again, DO NOT IMPACT YOUR CHARGE TARGET if it is likely to.be killed by it.
3) Gunfighter is the cracker on which we deliver the quick work cheese.
4) Does the lance rule suck? Yeah, pretty much. But not as often as you might think.
In my experience, 1/10 times it does you a favor be disengaging a potential quick work target. 7/10 times it has no impact because I follow the above rules and DO NOT ASSAULT OR IMPACT MY CHARGE TARGET and 2/10 out of the time it sucks because on turns I don't charge I only have 1 melee attack to trigger quick work with. The key to mitigating the downside of the lance rule is to NOT ASSAULT YOUR SINGLE WOUND CHARGE TARGET. It's really pretty simple.
5) TRIGGER QUICK WORK
Make sure you are doing everything you can to protect your quick work shot. DO NOT ASSAULT OR IMPACT if it would endanger the shot. Do not quick work another Destor's charge target. When charging a heavy, think ahead and make the last attack with the destor with the best LoS. This is where you make back your points by sniping important solos and killing multiple models a turn. It's an amazing ability.
6) Don't forget to repostion! When I first started using them I did a lot.
Some other helpful tips:
Any spell that increases attack odds is worth more if they are making multiple attacks. Having the option for 3 rerolls from Fortune, for example, is better than only 1.
I find deploying the Destors on a flank with the least rough terrain is good, but if you can give them pathfinder it's even better.
They do not always need support, but if you can give them an armor buff or def buff (most often blur in the Kaelyssa list above) they usually wear it well.
And finally, because no post about Destors would be complete without it, I wish they had a second melee attack for when they do not charge, even if it wasn't usable when they do. That would be awesome.
Also dual shot would be amazing.
And if they could get unyielding back.
One final tip: forget the thane. 7 pts for basically just another destor with a conditional armor buff is just not worth it. Even I am not that crazy.
Here is the list where I have had the most success with Destors:
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Kaelyssa - Dawnguard
Theme: Legions of Dawn
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kaelyssa, The Night's Whisper - WJ: +29
- Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Harpy - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Harpy - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 0
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - PC: 0
Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
- Soulless Escort - PC: 1
Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
- Soulless Escort - PC: 1
Dawnguard Destors - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
THEME: Legions of Dawn
They fit perfectly into this list for a few reasons:
1) They are largely immune to certain infantry clearing attacks that threaten sentinels. In this case, I'm thinking of auto-point effects and things like electroleaps. Sentinels are fairly resistant to e-leaps as is, but the difference between needing an 8 and needing a 12 to kill is big.
2) They threaten 13" with their lances un-assisted. In my testing of previous lists, I found that though I could protect my precious sentinels for a turn with Kaelyssa's feat, if the opponent had fast infantry or cavalry they could often back up and wait out the turn, or be within walk+attack range of the sentinels which would require them to also minifeat during the feat which is not ideal. Some sort of threat projection is needed. I tried nyss and found them to not be able to do enough work against the targets that would threaten the sentinels and they were very easy to clear. The threat range and relative durability of the Destors makes them a perfect fit.
3) They force the opponent to commit quality attacks to kill. If I play it correctly, my opponent needs to choose between killing sentinels and killing destors, and it's not an easy choice to make.
4) The Scyir solves all kinds of positioning problems, and let's you do some pretty funky stuff with large-based cav that will surprise both you and your opponents.
For all these reasons, I love Destors in this list.
But how do I use them to maximum effect? At 4 pts per model, they need to be getting a good amount of work done to be worth it. Below are my rules of engagement for our underrated cavalry, but first let's review their rules and abilities:
Assault - where most people slip up
Cavalry - awesome
Gunfighter - cool
Lance - not as bad as people think
Quick work - the money maker
Reposition 3" - great
Elladan's Destor Rules of Engagement:
1) DO NOT ASSAULT
If it's anything short of a warnoun or 8 box medium infantry DO NOT ASSAULT - that's a fun rule that throws chip damage on hard targets and screws you over every other time. If you kill your target with the assault you lose out on the most valuable rule - Quick Work.
2) Always be looking for impact attacks
You need to be looking for opportunities to kill multiple models or putting as much damage on a single model as possible to get value out of the destors. Against most units, you should be able to impact at least one model on your way to your charge target - just make sure you position in a way that lets you make your charge attack even if you fail the impact attack. Once again, DO NOT IMPACT YOUR CHARGE TARGET if it is likely to.be killed by it.
3) Gunfighter is the cracker on which we deliver the quick work cheese.
4) Does the lance rule suck? Yeah, pretty much. But not as often as you might think.
In my experience, 1/10 times it does you a favor be disengaging a potential quick work target. 7/10 times it has no impact because I follow the above rules and DO NOT ASSAULT OR IMPACT MY CHARGE TARGET and 2/10 out of the time it sucks because on turns I don't charge I only have 1 melee attack to trigger quick work with. The key to mitigating the downside of the lance rule is to NOT ASSAULT YOUR SINGLE WOUND CHARGE TARGET. It's really pretty simple.
5) TRIGGER QUICK WORK
Make sure you are doing everything you can to protect your quick work shot. DO NOT ASSAULT OR IMPACT if it would endanger the shot. Do not quick work another Destor's charge target. When charging a heavy, think ahead and make the last attack with the destor with the best LoS. This is where you make back your points by sniping important solos and killing multiple models a turn. It's an amazing ability.
6) Don't forget to repostion! When I first started using them I did a lot.
Some other helpful tips:
Any spell that increases attack odds is worth more if they are making multiple attacks. Having the option for 3 rerolls from Fortune, for example, is better than only 1.
I find deploying the Destors on a flank with the least rough terrain is good, but if you can give them pathfinder it's even better.
They do not always need support, but if you can give them an armor buff or def buff (most often blur in the Kaelyssa list above) they usually wear it well.
And finally, because no post about Destors would be complete without it, I wish they had a second melee attack for when they do not charge, even if it wasn't usable when they do. That would be awesome.
Also dual shot would be amazing.
And if they could get unyielding back.
One final tip: forget the thane. 7 pts for basically just another destor with a conditional armor buff is just not worth it. Even I am not that crazy.