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Post by Arjac Ironside on Nov 29, 2017 13:38:11 GMT
The following lists are currently in the process of being built.
List 1:
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince +28
-War Doge -0
-Behemoth -25
-Kodiak -13
-Juggernaut -12
-Marauder -10
-Marauder -10
-Marauder -10
-Marauder -10
-Marauder -10
Greylord Forge Seer -0
Greylord Forge Seer -0
Widowmaker Marksman -0
Battle Mechaniks -3
75/75
List 2:
Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova +28
-Devastator -14
-Destroyer -14
Fenris -9
Greylord Forge Seer -0
Greylord Forge Seer -4
Koldun Lord -4
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -0
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -0
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -3
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -3
75/75
The idea here is for Vlad and co to handle huge bases and honestly most things. While Zerkova's wolves handle the dreaded cryx drop and use the cloud wall to deliver a load of weapon masters and the Koldun Lord will help with things like hollowmen shooting through clouds.
Anyone see any obvious holes?
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 29, 2017 14:17:10 GMT
I'm by no means experienced with either Zerkova or Doom Reaver hordes, but it seems to me that the Escorts are pretty extraneous. Presumably everything is going to be behind a cloud wall, and then you've got Zerkova's feat, plus the Koldun.
If you drop all the escorts, you still have 61 points of Doom Reavers, so you can make both Forge Seers and the Koldun free. That would leave you with 14 more points to spend, which is enough for another unit of Doom Reavers. However, you might be better off spending the points on some more support, such as Saxon Orrik (Fenris can't be everywhere) or another Koldun (might be too much?)
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Post by Arjac Ironside on Nov 29, 2017 14:24:42 GMT
So regarding the escorts I think the chance of murdering myself with bezerk is a real threat to the list given the prevalence of terrain in SR2017 they will end up grouped within reach of each other. Additionally each escort has a magic spray and if near the Koldun Lord (I'm debating dropping a forge seer for another Koldun) has battle wizard, I see other lists with the ternion for the sprays but I think this allows some versatility in the swordsman units.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Nov 29, 2017 16:14:09 GMT
Seems solid.
War dog should probably be Yuri.
I agree that you need escorts. Don't forget they get battle wizard and can possibly kill more infantry than a doomie on a charge.
4 units is a good number that gives 2 waves of doomies on each flank. If they can't kill something probably 5 also won't. Doomies also have hidden diminishing returns on unit number because Apparition works for 1 unit only making everyone else charge for a mediocre 11".
I agree on taking Koldun over Seer here. You need only 1 Seer to power Destroyer shots, Devastator can operate by itself, meanwhile Kolduns help doomies hit and turn battle wizard on.
Second Koldun vs. Saxon is debatable. Saxon is better for sitting on flag and allows Fenris to play more aggressively.
The way you assigned free points is weird. Take 4pt things for free instead of 3pt ones and get a tinker or upgrade Destroyer into Decimator.
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Post by Arjac Ironside on Dec 1, 2017 13:56:15 GMT
Wow. I thought I was going to get shredded I must be getting better at theory machine. Ok well the doom reavers arrived yesterday I'm going to get everything built this weekend and test it out next week. Bat-rep will follow.
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Post by shortsleeve on Dec 1, 2017 14:17:32 GMT
the escort are great when u play on clock. 4 squad to position carefully take to much time, for me at least. and a decimator can be great i know a lot of people ahte him at 16 but auto attack save some focus and 2 pour 15 can be good with a melee army and dont forget zerkova can fish 4 crit with her spay to get his target statioanry.
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Post by auraco on Dec 1, 2017 15:43:50 GMT
For Zerkova I would try to fit Ragman, pow 12 weapon master are good, but Ragman can give them the little extra necessary to one round heavies.
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Post by Arjac Ironside on Dec 1, 2017 17:37:27 GMT
For Zerkova I would try to fit Ragman, pow 12 weapon master are good, but Ragman can give them the little extra necessary to one round heavies. See this is the problem with coming from another faction, the fact khador can take ragman never even entered my mind. What about shuffling some stuff around to bring alexa and the risen? |
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Post by blindfury on Dec 3, 2017 18:21:48 GMT
Regarding Z1,
I’ve played a lot of games with her and you would probably be better served with 2 destroyers. The cloud bunker is extremely slow so a couple rounds of boosted pow 14s are helpful even if they end up scattering and thinning out enemy flankers.
I would not take Alexia I (that many units is just going to burn your clock.) You might want to consider Alexia II though. Z1 is one of the few casters that can protect her long enough to see some use and your list is uniquely qualified to generate souls. Even if you hit an all-undead force, RFP on a stick is nothing to sneeze at.
I would drop all the escorts. Replace them with a second forge seer and Alexia II or A&H+Val (assuming the second option is allowed in theme, I’m away from my references.)
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Post by Arjac Ironside on Dec 11, 2017 15:30:08 GMT
Holy Crap. Now that I have all the doom reavers assembled and on my desk, this is A LOT of weapon masters. I'm looking at this angry mob of swordsmen pondering: if I was across the table from this mess how on God's green earth would I deal with this? With a cloud wall. And with them being immune to spells.
Protectorate: Whelp A2A isn't going to do me any good. Vengers are not going to be able to charge and impact due to clouds. Maybe I can sacrifice the errants to tar pit them long enough to get some cav in there? Not looking good.
CoC: Assimilators will help but the shot selection is going to be limited due to the ground pounder having to be at least partially in sight, and Mom's shrapnel swarm needs a valid target. I would not be a happy camper. Only other option would be to run up and face-tank the weapon masters with lucant's feat and conservators while hoping I can do enough damage the turn after contact with the TEP and co.
I wouldn't want to run this list at N3mo e-leaps. What else would be a natural predator to this list?
List as built at this time:
Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova +28
-Destroyer -14
-Destroyer -14
Fenris -9
Greylord Forge Seer -0
Greylord Forge Seer -4
Koldun Lord -4
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -0
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -0
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -3
Doom Reaver Swordsmen -13
-Greylord Escort -3
75/75
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Post by borderprince on Dec 11, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
Holy Crap. Now that I have all the doom reavers assembled and on my desk, this is A LOT of weapon masters. I'm looking at this angry mob of swordsmen pondering: if I was across the table from this mess how on God's green earth would I deal with this? With a cloud wall. And with them being immune to spells. Protectorate: Whelp A2A isn't going to do me any good. Vengers are not going to be able to charge and impact due to clouds. Maybe I can sacrifice the errants to tar pit them long enough to get some cav in there? Not looking good. CoC: Assimilators will help but the shot selection is going to be limited due to the ground pounder having to be at least partially in sight, and Mom's shrapnel swarm needs a valid target. I would not be a happy camper. Only other option would be to run up and face-tank the weapon masters with lucant's feat and conservators while hoping I can do enough damage the turn after contact with the TEP and co. I wouldn't want to run this list at N3mo e-leaps. What else would be a natural predator to this list? Remember Doomreavers aren't immune to spells. They cannot be targeted by spells. So it is still possible to damage them with spells, which can be an issue if people manage to get LoS to a non-spell-warded model. The Greylord solos are probably the weak spot there, but equally opponents can sacrifice their own models (and do so by moving them into, but not through, the clouds). Anything which can snipe key models could be a problem. Cygnar Gunmages/Kara Sloan can probably scalpel out Fenris, UAs and the Koldun Lord fairly easily. That makes things more difficult for you in various ways. More importantly, Zerkova is fairly squishy. Ret/Cygnar can gun for her and you need to bring her fairly forward to keep the clouds moving forward. Rough terrain generation on demand. Fenris does not cover all your Doomreavers for Relentless Charge, and that can enable your opponent to dictate his positioning. Models which can run to engage and have high DEF/ARM are a possible issue. Kayazy (especially Eliminators) can run in and Doomreavers won't find it that easy to hit them to clear them off. Your Lucant example is the same sort of thing with high ARM. |
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Post by smoothcriminal on Dec 11, 2017 17:35:08 GMT
Natural high stats or something you can't dispell is a problem this list. Like arm 23 clams or def 14 beasts behind obstructions. But you can't do much against that on list level without changing caster.
Matchups I wouldn't want to drop this are: snake-based Legion (i.e. Fyanna2), cloud ignoring gunline or leaps (i.e. Cygnar, some Legion lists, randomly other factions may take anti-cloud tech). Otherwise you're fine and then there's Vlad list. I don't think there's a faction pair where you can't drop any of your lists.
Both Z1 and doomies require practice to play well.
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