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Post by jmabry on Nov 29, 2017 3:34:22 GMT
So I bought a Old Witch of Khador model today because it looked good(I did get a demo game first), and was wondering how best to build around this model. My question is what I should be buying and why to stay in faction for Old Witch 1. Next week I plan to purchase a Prime and the Khador command book because having the rules to play my army seems intelligent.
EDIT: The other units that looked immediately interesting are the War Dog, and a Behemoth, but I intend to complete these two models(Old Witch and Scrapjack) before buying more.
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Post by Netherby on Nov 29, 2017 5:28:25 GMT
Hmmm.
Well, if the only thing you like about the faction is Old Witch 1, you should probably not stay with the faction. She is very much an odd one out in Khador. Also, being new to the game I have to tell you that OW1 is a rather difficult caster to play with. Most people will say she is just bad. I don't know that it's a particularly good introduction to the game, especially if you are going to play against much more experienced players.
If you like Khador then Butcher 1 is a good place to start and then expand into Butcher 3 when you have a better understanding of the game. Both are reasonably straight forwards to play and also very powerful.
Any way, regardless of if you want to stick with the Witch or go with someone else or another faction entirely you need to look at 'Theme Forces'. The current state of the game is that you are mostly forced into picking a 'Theme Force' which restricts what models you can take and gives you some bonuses.
Currently OW1 is probably best taken with the Winter Guard Kommand theme. This restricts you to mostly models with 'Winter Guard' in their name and non-character warjacks.
There is also Mad Men of Winter theme, which she could go in. Personally I'm not sold on it this theme being good, but it's kinda 'fun' if you like mad men with big swords and wizards on horses. You can pretty much only take Doom Reaver models and Greylord models in it, so I guess take a look and see if you like those.
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Post by shortsleeve on Nov 29, 2017 5:34:49 GMT
you can get war room2 also its a good tool to build your list and have accest to the recent theme list, behemoth is realy good but keep in mind right now you can only take him in jaw of the wolf, my advice look at the theme list i choose what do you want to play if you can try it before
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 29, 2017 9:54:31 GMT
You can actually access all the cards in the game HERE. So you can have a look at the Khador stuff there.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Nov 29, 2017 10:25:06 GMT
Cards are free.
OW is not a good caster.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Nov 29, 2017 13:23:34 GMT
So I bought a Old Witch of Khador model today because it looked good(I did get a demo game first), and was wondering how best to build around this model. My question is what I should be buying and why to stay in faction for Old Witch 1. Next week I plan to purchase a Prime and the Khador command book because having the rules to play my army seems intelligent. EDIT: The other units that looked immediately interesting are the War Dog, and a Behemoth, but I intend to complete these two models(Old Witch and Scrapjack) before buying more. First off, welcome to Warmachine and Hordes! While the others didn't say it, we are all glad you decided to get in on this game. Second, welcome to Khador! While all of the factions have their strengths and weaknesses, Khador is a great faction. Your initial interest in The Old Witch of Khador is... interesting. She and Scrapjack are neat models, and will be fun to paint, but they are not exactly "new player material" to learn the game with. For casual play with friends where you are just looking to have fun, she will certainly be interesting. If you decide to get into the competitive aspects of the game and play Steam Roller scenarios to prepare for Steam Roller tournaments The Old Witch is not exactly the best pick - a lot of players have had a lot more success with many of the other warcasters in Khador's stable. But hey, you may be different, which is just fine. So, what are the kind of things you want to be able to do in the game? What aspects of the game and / or the background really appeal to you? Knowing that will help us help you find the right things to start getting for the game. The Prime book and the command book will be great things to buy, but not necessary. The command book will be a great starter for background on Khador, but the rules for the individual people and things can be found in the Card Database and printed for free or in the Warroom 2 app if you decide to pay. The Prime book will be a good read, but there will be some minor rules updates that have occurred that will make the book a little out of date. Game Rules and Errata is a great place to hit for all of the up-to-date rules, and it is free to download. Instead of buying the Prime book I suggest instead that you buy the Khador-battlegroup-starter-box for Khador. It comes with it's very own digest-sized copy of the rulebook, Lord Kozlov is a great starting warcaster for learning the game with, and you can branch out from him to other warcasters (like The Old Witch) after you get a better feel for the game. Welcome!
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Nov 29, 2017 13:26:37 GMT
Cards are free. OW is not a good caster. I heartily disagree! With the Old Witch thing, that is. She's baller. Like off the chain when facing infantry. The cards are free, I cannot disagree with that. Welcome to the game! Enjoy playing! Remember that you're going to lose when you start playing, but it's all about learning and having fun!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 29, 2017 15:50:17 GMT
Welcome to Khador. The old Warmachine advice used to go something like "prepare to lose your first 20 games" or something: the point is it takes a while to get a handle on this game, don't be discouraged by early losses, instead just relax and enjoy your time hanging around with like-minded people.
Personally I think people should play with whatever models appeal to them, whether it be for the looks, the fluff, or the rules. But I lose most of my games, so you should probably not listen to me.
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Post by AdeptusB on Nov 29, 2017 16:11:16 GMT
If you really want to use Old Witch, then Winter Guard Rifle Corps with max Rocketeers are the go-to recipient of Weald Secrets.
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Post by jmabry on Nov 30, 2017 3:51:16 GMT
So I bought a Old Witch of Khador model today because it looked good(I did get a demo game first), and was wondering how best to build around this model. My question is what I should be buying and why to stay in faction for Old Witch 1. Next week I plan to purchase a Prime and the Khador command book because having the rules to play my army seems intelligent. EDIT: The other units that looked immediately interesting are the War Dog, and a Behemoth, but I intend to complete these two models(Old Witch and Scrapjack) before buying more. First off, welcome to Warmachine and Hordes! While the others didn't say it, we are all glad you decided to get in on this game. Second, welcome to Khador! While all of the factions have their strengths and weaknesses, Khador is a great faction. Your initial interest in The Old Witch of Khador is... interesting. She and Scrapjack are neat models, and will be fun to paint, but they are not exactly "new player material" to learn the game with. For casual play with friends where you are just looking to have fun, she will certainly be interesting. If you decide to get into the competitive aspects of the game and play Steam Roller scenarios to prepare for Steam Roller tournaments The Old Witch is not exactly the best pick - a lot of players have had a lot more success with many of the other warcasters in Khador's stable. But hey, you may be different, which is just fine. So, what are the kind of things you want to be able to do in the game? What aspects of the game and / or the background really appeal to you? Knowing that will help us help you find the right things to start getting for the game. The Prime book and the command book will be great things to buy, but not necessary. The command book will be a great starter for background on Khador, but the rules for the individual people and things can be found in the Card Database and printed for free or in the Warroom 2 app if you decide to pay. The Prime book will be a good read, but there will be some minor rules updates that have occurred that will make the book a little out of date. Game Rules and Errata is a great place to hit for all of the up-to-date rules, and it is free to download. Instead of buying the Prime book I suggest instead that you buy the Khador-battlegroup-starter-box for Khador. It comes with it's very own digest-sized copy of the rulebook, Lord Kozlov is a great starting warcaster for learning the game with, and you can branch out from him to other warcasters (like The Old Witch) after you get a better feel for the game. Welcome! The things I want to be able to do are basically have fun playing a miniatures wargame. While OW1(this is the correct abbreviation?) may not be the most competitive war caster, I bought the model because I think it will look good when painted and the box art looked awesome. That being said, I've had a great time building them and they are now primed ready to paint, so I'll likely be picking up a War Dog next week along with my prime or Khador-battlegroup-starter-box. The feel of different factions being at war in a future with giant stompy robots(for lack of a better word) was what drew me in to begin with after selling out of 40k for unrelated reasons. This game seems a little more rules-heavy and less lore-driven than 40k was, and that was also part of the appeal. Cards are free. OW is not a good caster. I heartily disagree! With the Old Witch thing, that is. She's baller. Like off the chain when facing infantry. The cards are free, I cannot disagree with that. Welcome to the game! Enjoy playing! Remember that you're going to lose when you start playing, but it's all about learning and having fun! How good Old Witch is was kind of irrelevant to my enjoyment, but for competitive play, I can certainly be happy playing something else, but she looked fun to build/pain. This makes me feel better about the decision to buy her as a first model as there's clearly some kind of draw since at least one other person plays/enjoys her. Welcome to Khador. The old Warmachine advice used to go something like "prepare to lose your first 20 games" or something: the point is it takes a while to get a handle on this game, don't be discouraged by early losses, instead just relax and enjoy your time hanging around with like-minded people. Personally I think people should play with whatever models appeal to them, whether it be for the looks, the fluff, or the rules. But I lose most of my games, so you should probably not listen to me. I only tend to play models that appeal to me for the looks at the very least, and maybe the rules on a broader scale once I've learned the rules a bit better, so this may be more relevant than you thought as you made the comment.
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Post by Netherby on Nov 30, 2017 4:39:46 GMT
You will likely find that many (most?) warmachine players are or at least think of themselves as competitive players. This usually means that even in a 'casual' game, they will be using the most competitive lists. Essentially with the mind set that they are practicing them for the next tournament.
It's much rarer to find a group that just plays 'silly' non-competitive lists because they like how they look. I think this is because the game is billed as having a competitive rule set and most metas revolve around tournaments rather than just meeting up for a casual game.
OW1 (Old Witch 1) isn't terribly bad. It's more that she is difficult to play well. The game is also based somewhat around 'counters' and a lot of the popular lists 'counter' OW1. In a tournament setting you would have a second (or even 3rd) list, which would be there to cover these 'counters'. So even in casual play I would really recommend you have a second list that you can play against the people who are running stuff that shuts your OW1 down.
For example there is a Skorne list that is popular (Zaal with Immortals) that completely ignores everything the OW1 can do. You have basically no play into that list at all, which doesn't result in a very fun game for you (unless you enjoy losing completely hopeless battles).
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Post by jmabry on Nov 30, 2017 4:57:43 GMT
I don't enjoy losing completely hopeless battles, but until I get to the standard point value of one list, I see no reason to buy a second warcaster(although, the cavalry guy looks pretty cool, but I don't remember his name). Also, I was told(don't know if this is a local meta thing or not) to have 20 points of "Specialty" units, akin to a sideboard in a TCG(Think Magic: The Gathering or Yu-Gi-Oh!), to have answers to those "counters", although, I don't know what you would change to counter specific lists, I just assumed I would get there eventually.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 30, 2017 5:31:06 GMT
Sounds like your locals are playing ADR ("Active Duty Roster"). As I understand it this is not exactly a standard game mode, more of an "organised play" sort of thing.
Anyway, as you've no doubt noticed by now, when you post on the forums most of the advice you will receive will be competitive-minded, suggesting specific models and units. This might not be what a new player who isn't particularly competitive yet wants to hear (I certainly didn't want to hear that I "needed" to buy certain models that I didn't like the look of), but I think that it will start to resonate more after you've been playing longer.
Anyway, the nice thing about Warmachine is that it's very easy to change the way your list works by just changing your warcaster. So just have fun with Old Witch, and if you decide she doesn't fit your meta you can simply swap in a Sorscha or Butcher to try something new. In the meantime, it might be best to build up a balanced list that doesn't crutch too hard on a specific caster (some lists can only work with the right warcaster; there's only a few warcasters who can realistically run a full jack army for example), to make it easier to swap casters around.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Nov 30, 2017 7:38:02 GMT
Welcome to the game and to Khador!
Old Witch is cool, both model wise and fluff wise! She's very different to all our other casters, which is no bad thing. She takes a fair bit of getting used to to suss out all her little tricks, but is very rewarding when you start to see them. Don't worry about starting with a caster that's viewed as weak on online forums! To begin with just play what you want and have fun with it. Ask the more experienced players what they saw during your games that you could have done differently and you'll soon start picking up new strategies. Do this as a quick little 5 minute or so chat after each game ideally.
I saw you mentioned you were picking up the war dog (great model) and you seem 50/50 between the command book and the battlebox. I would recommend the battlebox first so that you have a few more warjacks and another caster to stick down on the table when you fancy a change. Then if you want to get into the story behind Khador you could look at getting the command book after that.
Anyway, enjoy the game! Don't worry too much about your lists from a competitive stance for now, just play what you fancy!
Cheers, Dave
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Post by minmaximus on Nov 30, 2017 9:16:50 GMT
So at a glance, bearing in mind I'm not really familiar with Khador, lets go through Old Witch a bit.
There's 3 big things that leap out to me looking at her: the spell list, the feat, and the defensive stats. The spell list says "my warjacks are on their own, but infantry is alright", so you probably don't want too much beyond your 18 warjack points in robots for your army but you want lots of dudes, with some favoritism for low armor (vulnerable to blast damage) and at least some ranged attacks (for Hunter). In addition you have the ability to protect your only arc node and can manage some threat extension with Gallows, and assassination threat with Avatar of Slaughter. The feat says "enemy infantry will be shredded, but heavy armor is safe", so you got a strong infantry game that plays well into other infantry, but handling heavy armor is not your strong point. The defensive stats say "I will explode violently if someone hits me", so you need to play safe.
So adding all that together: a Grolar doesn't seem like the worst idea, using all your warjack points and having native Pathfinder- its either that or two Juggernauts. You'll want the Winter Guard Kommand theme force because it gives you the infantry you want with a defensive perk for your warcaster and other nice benefits. Vlad1 seems to run an army similar to what the Old Witch wants, so it might be worth looking into what sort of stuff he runs and starting there.
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