Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 29, 2017 0:19:03 GMT
I assume I'm not the only one less than impressed by the Battlegroup Starter Box for trolls (then again, maybe I am?). Privateer Press did do us a solid by increasing the journeyman league points for Week 2 to 15 so that we can grab a Mauler, but even so, we're the only list that lacks a heavy and the only list that can't get above P+S 16. So I've been mathing out some alternative 0 point lists with a few different caster choices.
Ragnor Or Jarl Skuld
Ragnor is an excellent caster in small games, having a damage buff upkeep and a strong defensive feat that can both display Trollblood's strength and toughness.
Jarl is atypical for troll casters, being all about speed and odd angles of attack. Strong ranged presence is something that Trolls can play, but is not typically what people think when they see our models.
Group 1
Earthborn Dire Troll x1
Pyre Troll x1
Winter Troll x1
This is my favorite, because it has a nice balance of useful stuff and is a thematic battlegroup.
Pros: Meets the "Heavy + 2 lights + a gun" requirement that nearly all other battle boxes meet. All three beasts have potential use in future lists. EBDT gets to P+S 17 under Pulverizer. If EBDT goes down, the Pyre Troll can serve as a reasonable backup with P+S 16 Flaming Fists under Pulverizer or Ragnor can get to P+S 18 under Flaming Fists and Pulverizer. Has two solid ranged guns, and two decent animii (Freezer on the Winter can be used to lock down the enemy).
Cons: Doesn't work well with Jarl, who can't provide much of a damage buff. EBDT's Elemental Communion may be confusing for new players.
Group 2
Dire Troll Blitzer x1
Troll Basher x1
Night Troll x1
This list works a little better with Jarl who can give the blitzer pathfinder and speed it up to get it to the enemy caster. Ragnor still makes the list hit harder, but Jarl can easily deliver on the assassination in a 0 point game.
Pros: Heavy + 2 lights + Gun. Has built in accuracy buffs that can help make up for the lack of damage. Strong assassination potential from all three beasts.
Cons: Bulldozer on the Blitzer, especially if paired with Jarl is a near guaranteed kill on any caster within 11" or just a decent lucky kill on anyone within 20" thanks to dual attack. Not a lot of casters can take D3 boostable pow 13s to the face (side note: can you use magic bullet on the same target you shot to trigger it?), and bulldozer allows the Blitzer to clear most battlegroups out of the way of his charge.
Group 3
Dire Troll Mauler x1
Swamp Troll x1
Troll Basher x1
Since everybody needs a Mauler! Huge damage swing with Rage + Pulverizer is probably unfair, but Jarl loves having rage to buff damage on his otherwise pillowfisted trolls. I chose the swamp troll primarily to be different than the previous two lists, it could just as easily be a Pyre or Winter troll.
Pros: Heavy + 2 lights + Gun. Has accuracy, damage and Defense buffs for you to play with via animii. Access to pathfinder on the lights makes assassination threat real while still encouraging smart play. Depending on your exact loadout, can be a good starting package to build from.
Cons: Rage + Pulverizer on the Mauler is probably a "Negative Play Experience." Big damage swings like that on a 5 Fury beast is probably unfair to the opponent. Even without pulverizer, the Mauler is a big threat in low level games.
+30 WBP
Ragnor Or Jarl Skuld
Ragnor is an excellent caster in small games, having a damage buff upkeep and a strong defensive feat that can both display Trollblood's strength and toughness.
Jarl is atypical for troll casters, being all about speed and odd angles of attack. Strong ranged presence is something that Trolls can play, but is not typically what people think when they see our models.
Group 1
Earthborn Dire Troll x1
Pyre Troll x1
Winter Troll x1
This is my favorite, because it has a nice balance of useful stuff and is a thematic battlegroup.
Pros: Meets the "Heavy + 2 lights + a gun" requirement that nearly all other battle boxes meet. All three beasts have potential use in future lists. EBDT gets to P+S 17 under Pulverizer. If EBDT goes down, the Pyre Troll can serve as a reasonable backup with P+S 16 Flaming Fists under Pulverizer or Ragnor can get to P+S 18 under Flaming Fists and Pulverizer. Has two solid ranged guns, and two decent animii (Freezer on the Winter can be used to lock down the enemy).
Cons: Doesn't work well with Jarl, who can't provide much of a damage buff. EBDT's Elemental Communion may be confusing for new players.
Group 2
Dire Troll Blitzer x1
Troll Basher x1
Night Troll x1
This list works a little better with Jarl who can give the blitzer pathfinder and speed it up to get it to the enemy caster. Ragnor still makes the list hit harder, but Jarl can easily deliver on the assassination in a 0 point game.
Pros: Heavy + 2 lights + Gun. Has built in accuracy buffs that can help make up for the lack of damage. Strong assassination potential from all three beasts.
Cons: Bulldozer on the Blitzer, especially if paired with Jarl is a near guaranteed kill on any caster within 11" or just a decent lucky kill on anyone within 20" thanks to dual attack. Not a lot of casters can take D3 boostable pow 13s to the face (side note: can you use magic bullet on the same target you shot to trigger it?), and bulldozer allows the Blitzer to clear most battlegroups out of the way of his charge.
Group 3
Dire Troll Mauler x1
Swamp Troll x1
Troll Basher x1
Since everybody needs a Mauler! Huge damage swing with Rage + Pulverizer is probably unfair, but Jarl loves having rage to buff damage on his otherwise pillowfisted trolls. I chose the swamp troll primarily to be different than the previous two lists, it could just as easily be a Pyre or Winter troll.
Pros: Heavy + 2 lights + Gun. Has accuracy, damage and Defense buffs for you to play with via animii. Access to pathfinder on the lights makes assassination threat real while still encouraging smart play. Depending on your exact loadout, can be a good starting package to build from.
Cons: Rage + Pulverizer on the Mauler is probably a "Negative Play Experience." Big damage swings like that on a 5 Fury beast is probably unfair to the opponent. Even without pulverizer, the Mauler is a big threat in low level games.
+29 WBP
Grim 1, Grissel 1, Doomshaper 1, Horgle 2, Madrak 1, Madrak 3
Grim 1 has long range, offers threat increases, MAT fixers, Pathfinder and a strong control feat. He has a lot of tools that trolls like to use, but with so much on his card he can be difficult for new players to get.
Grissel 1 offers nifty and flavorful effects with her fell calls and her gun. Handing out extra attacks or movement is really strong, as is her spray. She offers a DEF/ARM Debuff, pathfinder and threat extension and terrain.
Doomshaper 1 has the highest FURY of these warlocks and doesn't like to act personally. Great Power and Accurse help with Fury management, and his powerful spells can be a nightmare for the enemy. His feat can be very punishing in low model count games. He is stronger against Hordes than Warmachine.
Horgle 2 is an upkeep caster with a lot he'd like to do and not enough FURY to do it. His feat + Spells offer a potentially huge turn that can overwhelm the enemy in low model count games, but he won't have much fury to play with most turns. His strong fire theme is not typical of troll casters or the faction as a whole.
Madrak 1 used to be our Battlebox Caster. Low FURY hurts his feat and his ability to cast spells. His strong personal presence makes it tempting to use him in direct combat. Blood Boon is hard to trigger without infantry models to target, making Even Ground very difficult for him to cast. His feat is great defensively and for recovering the initiative.
Madrak 3 has a lot of rules. Protective Aura is key to troll play in larger point games, and an early introduction to the mechanic may be useful for new players. He has strong ranged game and melee game thanks to two shots from his spear and righteous vengeance. Fortune, Soothing Song, and Spellpiercer will all see potential use. Rebuke is practically useless in 0 point games. His feat is also almost completely useless for 0 point games.
Group 1
Earthborn Dire Troll x1
Earthborn Dire Troll x1
Pyre Troll x1
Troll Basher x1
The EBDT makes a return as a strong choice for a heavy. With only 15 points left to spend however, we have to trade a ranged beast for a cheap melee beast. This plays largely the same as the version with the winter troll, except with a stronger melee focus.
Pros: Meets the "Heavy + 2 lights + a gun" requirement that nearly all other battle boxes meet. All three beasts have potential use in future lists. EBDT gets to P+S 17 against Calamitied target. Pyre troll is a bit redundant if used with Horgle 2, but other casters don't mind the melee damage buff he can give them. Madrak 1 can hammer away at an opponent with Jackhammer.
Cons: Needs a damage buff to really work. Casters with effective MAT buffs can allow you to focus on boosting damage instead, which can slightly make up for the lack of damage but isn't quite good enough given that other battlegroups can boost and buff damage, or have higher P+S period.
Group 2
Dire Troll Mauler x1
Troll Basher x1
Troll Basher x1
Melee only option that probably hits a little too hard, but is very troll-y.
Pros: Thematic and has a mauler, which is usually a must have for trolls. Hits hard, can be fast with the right caster.
Cons: No ranged weapon. A lot of these casters have a gun of their own though, which sort of makes up for the lack of shooting in the battlegroup. Could be overpowering with Jackhammer on a Raged mauler or combining Calamity + Rage for a +5 damage swing, with an extra free attack courtesy of Grissel 1.
Group 3
Dire Troll Bomber x1
Troll Axer x1
Fast ranged battlegroup that I'm not particularly fond of.
Pros: Bombers are fantastic beasts that can be used very well by many casters in this list. Far Strike helps Madrak 1, Grim 1 and Madrak 3 especially. Axer provides pathfinder and a speed boost to help the bomber threat farther.
Cons: Less models than other lists. Has no real melee game except with Grissel 1. Crutches heavily on the bomber's ability to drop two AOEs every round. Difficult to manage Fury.
So these are just some ideas I came up with that could serve as alternatives to our current battle box. I'd love to hear your thoughts too. I couldn't get the points to work quite right for anyone with less than 29 Warbeast Points, but maybe I missed some interesting combinations?