cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156 
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Post by cassus on Nov 21, 2017 20:03:01 GMT
I'm back for yet more theory crafting this time with Zaal1 and Masters of War.
The basic premise of the list is the leverage last stand and Zaal1's feat to trade up heavily with my opponent and with 51 infantry that shouldnt be hard to do. As this is MOW anything they kill is RFP. The Centrati are here to guard Zaal and to hold off what ever I need to keep at bay. The Karax are cheap CMA infantry to guard the Swordsman on the way in. Also with CMA and last stand only the leader of the CMA is removed so Im going to try and leverage that to no kill them off to quick. Swordsman are the real high power attacks in the list, with last stand and power swell + Zaal's feat they would have 5 dice on each of their attacks which should tear just about anything to shreds.
While anything that uses last stand dies I still think this list can trade well enough and will out number the opponent enough to be able to close out games. Thoughts?
Zaal1
-Aptimus Marketh
-Krea
-Krea
-Rhinodon
Cataphractrai Centrati Max
-Vorkesh (free)
Praetorian Swordsman Max
-UA (free)
Praetorian Swordsman
Max
-UA
Karax Max
Karax Max
Tyrant Commander (free)
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Nov 21, 2017 21:45:05 GMT
scarab swarms have a functional CMA mechanic to abuse last stand. Maybe try them out instead of a rhinodon, though zaal does let him spiny growth for free which is nice. I'd probably min the Cetrati, since they're likely to just babysit Zaal all game anyways. Fit in some beast handlers that way.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Nov 21, 2017 22:18:45 GMT
I tried to get PGBH in there not sure I like it conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Z4r4x4y5z6N6v5P6Kfs5U6a6a6c6d6hSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Masters of War (Zaal 1) Supreme Aptimus Zaal [+26] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Cyclops Brute [8] - Rhinodon [12] - Aptimus Marketh [5] Extoller Soulward [3] Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18] - Tyrant Vorkesh [0(6)] Legends of Halaak [8] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Praetorian Karax (max) [11] Praetorian Karax (max) [11] Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13] - Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [0(4)] Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [0(6)] |
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on Nov 22, 2017 1:38:32 GMT
Garnor, Im not sure getting beast handlers in there is worth it. Loosing the second unit of swordsman is a big deal.
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Post by oranjejus on Nov 22, 2017 2:11:08 GMT
Speaking from experience, last stand swordsmen are super fun. Much hilarity will ensue. However, I far prefer having some real beastly presence, and given my clock issues with mid-30s infantry numbers, 50+ I think is simply too cumbersome without tactician to survive on the clock. At least, it would be for me.
So as a swordsmen free alternative (last stand plus Zaal1 feat make Karax CMAs, and beasts, super fun) here's what I have sitting in Warroom just in case I get my hands on a 3rd Karax unit:
Zaal1 + (no)Kovaas
- Agonizer
- Gladiator
- Sentry
- Sentry
Willbreaker
max Karax
max Karax
max Karax
Legends of Halaak
TyCom(free)
TyCom(free)
min Beast Handlers
In theory:
You don't need to make many attacks with the Karax, CMA them to get high quality results out, and chip into the enemy lines for the first few turns. Mainly, concentrate on maintaining the roadblock, and getting ahead on scenario. Last stand on CMAs is brilliant.
Once your own lines are sufficiently dismantled and Zaal has a 15-20 stack of available rage, blow up the world with feated Sentries, Gladiator, CMAs, etc.
Then ride the scenario count to victory.
In theory.
Edit NB: Big weakness is the lack of solos for scenario stuff, so opportunity to move the legends out and solos etc.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Nov 22, 2017 4:04:20 GMT
Garnor, Im not sure getting beast handlers in there is worth it. Loosing the second unit of swordsman is a big deal. I think I agree but I haven’t played swordsmen enough to really judge |
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Post by killroundears on Nov 22, 2017 7:00:09 GMT
Garnor, Im not sure getting beast handlers in there is worth it. Loosing the second unit of swordsman is a big deal. I think I agree but I haven’t played swordsmen enough to really judge In my experience swordsman are just awesome as a unit. They equally shred infantry or heavies and almost crowd out our other infantry. The only weakness they reallu have is the UA having a huuuge target on his head if power swell hasnt been used yet |
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Nov 22, 2017 14:10:33 GMT
My experience with swordsmen has been good overall, but one of their weaknesses is having zero innate resiliency tech. They don't quite have victim stats, but I've found that even with a krea aura on top of a warlock resiliency buff, they're still often going to die at an alarming rate.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 23, 2017 3:56:04 GMT
My experience with swordsmen has been good overall, but one of their weaknesses is having zero innate resiliency tech. They don't quite have victim stats, but I've found that even with a krea aura on top of a warlock resiliency buff, they're still often going to die at an alarming rate. i mean, 13/14 is essentially "the gold standard" of infantry statlines. 13 def being a key breakpoint that invalidates rat5 and makes rat6 only hit about ~60% of the time. the 14 armor helps them survive all but the most powerful blasts and even then, they have a decent survival rate. Mk3 is just a much more violent (for infantry) game than mk2 was so nothing really survives the middle of the board without insane stats. |
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Post by oranjejus on Nov 23, 2017 20:11:24 GMT
My experience with swordsmen has been good overall, but one of their weaknesses is having zero innate resiliency tech. They don't quite have victim stats, but I've found that even with a krea aura on top of a warlock resiliency buff, they're still often going to die at an alarming rate. i mean, 13/14 is essentially "the gold standard" of infantry statlines. 13 def being a key breakpoint that invalidates rat5 and makes rat6 only hit about ~60% of the time. the 14 armor helps them survive all but the most powerful blasts and even then, they have a decent survival rate. Mk3 is just a much more violent (for infantry) game than mk2 was so nothing really survives the middle of the board without insane stats. I'll echo Didder. 13/14 might be a gold standard, but under Defenders Ward (15/16) I'll lose almost the entire unit trivially if I think that's going to keep them safe. I have only the anecdotal evidence of taking swordsmen in every list for the last year, and most of those games with Xerxis1. The only way I could consistently keep them safe to use, was with screening and blocking LOS. Stacking concealment on top also got us to working territory, but forest were rarely exactly where they needed to be, and gobbers were.... well, just inconsistent. So with the level of violence (great way of putting it) infantry are subject to, I think mainly swordsmen need positioning chops instead of buffs. (Which coincidentally opens them up for use under more warlocks.) |
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