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Post by borderprince on Dec 7, 2017 16:33:27 GMT
War Room Army Mercenary - Damiano and 2x Cav Theme: The Kingmaker's Army 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Captain Damiano - WJ: +28 - Rocinante - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Vanguard - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Stannis Brocker - PC: 0 Sergeant Nicolas Verendrye - PC: 0 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Riflemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 14 THEME: The Kingmaker's Army --- GENERATED : 12/07/2017 07:13:12 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21 Couldn't you make that an irregulars theme and then snatch another solo, which could be rhupert, thus giving you access to two tough units of halbs (or tough Cav I guess) and or Pathfinder when needed? Unfortunately Irregulars only permits small/medium-based solos for free. So no free Stannis. That means if you take Stannis in Irregulars, you're capped at 3 other free solos. Although that might still be worth it.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Dec 7, 2017 18:54:31 GMT
War Room Army Mercenary - Damiano and 2x Cav Theme: The Kingmaker's Army 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Captain Damiano - WJ: +28 - Rocinante - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Vanguard - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Stannis Brocker - PC: 0 Sergeant Nicolas Verendrye - PC: 0 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Riflemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 14 THEME: The Kingmaker's Army --- GENERATED : 12/07/2017 07:13:12 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21 Couldn't you make that an irregulars theme and then snatch another solo, which could be rhupert, thus giving you access to two tough units of halbs (or tough Cav I guess) and or Pathfinder when needed? You would think I would be able to get one more free small or medium-based solo. But if I switch the theme army to "The Irregulars" then Stannis Brocker, who is a large-based solo, would not be free. Since he costs 7 points I would need to pay for him, which would put me under the 100 points of units and warjacks I would need for a 4th solo. So no, I could not get a 4th free solo unless I get rid of Stannis Brocker. But if I get rid of Stannis Brocker then I lose Tactician [Steelhead] which I see as mandatory for getting Steelhead Halberdiers and Steelhead Heavy Cavalry to work well together. Your suggestion, in an effort to get a free 4th solo, only messes up the "Steelhead Feng Shui" that is needed for the army to operate well. This army is a little screwed when it comes to access to Tough. But, if I want to drop the magic protection that Orin Midwinter brings and get Pathfinder on demand with Saxon Orrik, that is an option. (And, yes, "Steelhead Feng Shui" is a thing.)
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Dec 7, 2017 19:04:59 GMT
Totally fair, I don’t really play kingmaker or irregulars so was going with what limited knowledge / experience I had, but good to know. Lol and I like the “fung shui” thing.
Though I have noticed, when talking about Merc infantry in general, it seems are infantry is decent, but only if you go all ham on their “theme”. Like pirate infantry? Not bad, but you need a boat load (ha pirate joke) and all the solos to have them be good. Dwarves? Better bring lots of them with battle engines! Steelheads? Gotta have stannis, probably bring Damiano, and of course the halbs, cav, and maybe a thing of guns. When not gone all in on... I find they work well as cheap warm bodies of varying degrees, which has uses but other factions get more work from their stuff in those cases usually.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Dec 8, 2017 15:57:19 GMT
I feel like the halberdiers are good for their points pretty much no matter what. 2 units and Sgt. Nick + Rhupert is a good way to create a serious annoyance for 30 points. I agree on the pirates and conditionally on the dwarves (BE + forge guard is useful by itself, but more rhulic helps).
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Post by sgregorbmmd on Dec 10, 2017 4:18:28 GMT
If you're going to do Double Cav then I suggest forgetting LR and go with Damiano and all Steelhead in Kingmaker. Mercenary - Damiano and 2x Cav Theme: The Kingmaker's Army 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Captain Damiano - WJ: +28 - Rocinante - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Vanguard - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Stannis Brocker - PC: 0 Sergeant Nicolas Verendrye - PC: 0 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Riflemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 14 THEME: The Kingmaker's Army --- GENERATED : 12/07/2017 07:13:12 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21 I've been running sinilar lists for years. If you've had success with it in Mk III, I'm impressed because my record with all steelhead builds has been abysmal since last summer. Personally, I've found that the reduced melee range and loss of backswing took most of the steam out of this build during the edition change. I soon found that the steelheads could hold down one flank, but that trenchers with surefoot were always a better choice for the other. I'd argue that LR is the way to play Cav in mercenaries because you have access to good units with pathfinder instead of an arbitrarily nerfed, crappy unit that relies on super precise positioning and a de facto ten point solo to be effective. I'll probably proxy my SHC as vengers and storm lances for a few games when I get back and then make the final call on whether the conversion is worth it.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Dec 10, 2017 13:57:13 GMT
If you're going to do Double Cav then I suggest forgetting LR and go with Damiano and all Steelhead in Kingmaker. Mercenary - Damiano and 2x Cav Theme: The Kingmaker's Army 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Captain Damiano - WJ: +28 - Rocinante - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Vanguard - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Stannis Brocker - PC: 0 Sergeant Nicolas Verendrye - PC: 0 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Steelhead Riflemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 14 THEME: The Kingmaker's Army --- GENERATED : 12/07/2017 07:13:12 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21 I've been running sinilar lists for years. If you've had success with it in Mk III, I'm impressed because my record with all steelhead builds has been abysmal since last summer. Personally, I've found that the reduced melee range and loss of backswing took most of the steam out of this build during the edition change. I soon found that the steelheads could hold down one flank, but that trenchers with surefoot were always a better choice for the other. I'd argue that LR is the way to play Cav in mercenaries because you have access to good units with pathfinder instead of an arbitrarily nerfed, crappy unit that relies on super precise positioning and a de facto ten point solo to be effective. I'll probably proxy my SHC as vengers and storm lances for a few games when I get back and then make the final call on whether the conversion is worth it. I'll admit that I am more of a Khador & Legion player that heavily dabbles in theme armies for a lot of different factions - I have since the beginning of Mk2. (I was one of the earliest adopters of theme armies back then.) For a Journeyman League years ago I put together 30 Halberdiers for a Magnus1 theme army, and ever since then I have slowly been working on turning that into the core of a Steelhead army. My initial army list that I was building towards had 1 squad of heavy cav, but courtesy of Bartertown I own 2 squads of heavy cav. I saw this thread, wondered if I could build a tight Steelhead double-cav list, did so and posted it. I agree that Privateer Press over-nerfed the Steelhead Heavy Cavalry in the change from Mk2 to Mk3. Here's hoping that they make their way into a CID sometime soon. My concern about doing a double heavy cav in LR is that once you get your 2x Vengers or 2x Storm Lances in the army, how are you going to support them in the game? Once you get your double cav you won't be able to get any other units except for 2 character Merc units and Thorn Gunmages, and none of your other options for your army, except for Crosse2, don't really seem like they support cavalry very well. If you think you can muster a passable army with Crosse2, double Vengers / Storm Lances, and whatever else, I wish you luck. Otherwise I think you are going to have to wait until the Laellese Resistance CID and/or until the Steelhead Heavy Cav get pulled into some CID. Beyond that, I wouldn't do anything with your Steelhead Cav.
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