Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 28, 2017 21:35:30 GMT
supposing they move 5" away from the vanguard or kill it with melee attacks???€ You've found the downside to Countermeasure! Not only that...you found two of them! It's truly humbling to share a board with you.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 28, 2017 21:59:30 GMT
supposing they move 5" away from the vanguard or kill it with melee attacks???€ You've found the downside to Countermeasure! Not only that...you found two of them! It's truly humbling to share a board with you. what if you instead you put it on a unit with stealth and possibly also Advanced deploy and then used his feat on that unit and then ran them waaay toward your opponent so they could not shoot you at all and cannot easily advance through the unkillable models? because that is what you are actually supposed to do. Y would you even waste focus and a 10-point model to put it on a vanguard? that doesnt do anything at all!!! all it does is say to your opponent, "here sir! please kill this vanguard!"
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 28, 2017 22:39:06 GMT
You've found the downside to Countermeasure! Not only that...you found two of them! It's truly humbling to share a board with you. what if you eat instead you put it on a unit with stealth and possibly also Advanced deploy and then used his feat on that unit and then ran waaay them toward your opponent so they could not shoot you at all and cannot easily advance through the unkillable models? because that is what you are actually supposed to do.
Y would you even waste focus and a 10-point model to put it on a vanguard? that doesnt do anything at all!!! all it does is say to your opponent, "here sir! please kill this vanguard!"Thinking about McBain!!! in LR and Countermeasures. Perhaps Zealots+UA are the answer. Between Sac Pawn and Feat, you can keep that Monolith bearer alive (assuming no Grievious Wounds or other healing negation). The Zealots jam, die, Monolith bearer stays alive, next turn they pop back right where you need them and keep the guns on lockdown. No AD, they die to everything, and low DEF makes them not ideal, but they're cheap, have interesting guns, and are mostly unwipe-able on feat turn. And they're cheap.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 28, 2017 23:37:46 GMT
how about trencher commandos or rangers with stealth/ad? u could also run stormblades and go iron zeal/feat on some of them so they no can be KD? u can put fortune on them even!!!
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 29, 2017 14:12:57 GMT
You've found the downside to Countermeasure! Not only that...you found two of them! It's truly humbling to share a board with you. what if you instead you put it on a unit with stealth and possibly also Advanced deploy and then used his feat on that unit and then ran them waaay toward your opponent so they could not shoot you at all and cannot easily advance through the unkillable models? because that is what you are actually supposed to do. Y would you even waste focus and a 10-point model to put it on a vanguard? that doesnt do anything at all!!! all it does is say to your opponent, "here sir! please kill this vanguard!" supposing they move 5" away from the vanguard unit or kill it with melee attacks RFP effects???€
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 29, 2017 14:45:35 GMT
That being said, I have zero experience with MACBAIN!!! when you don't have any idea what you're talking about, why persist in arguing? rfp does not stop true grit. grievous wounds, entropic force, and a very few other effects that prevent healing stop it. upkeep removal can remove the countermeasure if present. there is a massive difference between a nigh unkillable wall of no shooting 36" up the board and a single, killable 5" bubble on a warjack. one forces your opponent to either back up and shoot and cede scenario or move forward, not shoot, not kill anything, and get smashed the following turn by the rest of your army following it up. this is the major part of macbain's game plan. putting countermeasure on a warjack and running it forward, on the other hand, offers no way of being polite about things because the outcome of such an action is so starkly obvious
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 29, 2017 17:22:34 GMT
That being said, I have zero experience with MACBAIN!!! when you don't have any idea what you're talking about, why persist in arguing? rfp does not stop true grit. grievous wounds, entropic force, and a very few other effects that prevent healing stop it. upkeep removal can remove the countermeasure if present. there is a massive difference between a nigh unkillable wall of no shooting 36" up the board and a single, killable 5" bubble on a warjack. one forces your opponent to either back up and shoot and cede scenario or move forward, not shoot, not kill anything, and get smashed the following turn by the rest of your army following it up. this is the major part of macbain's game plan. putting countermeasure on a warjack and running it forward, on the other hand, offers no way of being polite about things because the outcome of such an action is so starkly obvious Didn't mean to strike a nerve; just seemed appropriate given your responses. As for RFP not stopping true grit, that is conditional. Any Consume style effect that is on hit will still RFP models because it bypasses the disabled step. Similarly, this is all theorymachine. If your unit is 36" up field without much hitting power and the rest of your army is 24" behind without much ranged presence, what incentive does your opponent have to not just run past them? Or trample through them with a jack? Similarly, if the opponent has a lower power/many shots gunline style list, Choir + Countermeasure + somewhat resilient jack is likely even better. It's all situational.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 29, 2017 17:44:28 GMT
it isn't theory if you've done it a couple dozen times
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Post by Azuresun on Nov 30, 2017 12:08:21 GMT
As for RFP not stopping true grit, that is conditional. Any Consume style effect that is on hit will still RFP models because it bypasses the disabled step. Well, that effect is on one minion warbeast, one gargantuan and one colossal, so it's not that overriding a concern.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 30, 2017 14:53:27 GMT
As for RFP not stopping true grit, that is conditional. Any Consume style effect that is on hit will still RFP models because it bypasses the disabled step. Well, that effect is on one minion warbeast, one gargantuan and one colossal, so it's not that overriding a concern. Totally fair. I'm not aware of every corner case so I wasn't willing to go in depth about the likelihood, but it seemed worth noting. I'd hate to get gotcha'd like that.
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Post by postindirty on Dec 3, 2017 20:50:48 GMT
supposing they move 5" away from the vanguard or kill it with melee attacks???€ Same deal with putting counter measures on an infantry unit?
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Dec 4, 2017 0:33:12 GMT
supposing they move 5" away from the vanguard or kill it with melee attacks???€ Same deal with putting counter measures on an infantry unit? hey but what if also you maybe feated on that unit so it couldn't be killed and then ran it at the other army so they can't shoot the rest of your or get by those models without trampling or pushing them out of the way? do u think that might possibly be more effective than casting it on one vanguard?
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Post by postindirty on Dec 4, 2017 22:13:46 GMT
about as effective as taking choir and putting passage on all your jacks anyway.
congratulations by the way for figuring out and advocating for the most obvious use of countermeasures and MacBain's feat
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Dec 5, 2017 0:26:39 GMT
about as effective as taking choir and putting passage on all your jacks anyway. congratulations by the way for figuring out and advocating for the most obvious use of countermeasures and MacBain's feat well u would be surprised how hard it is for some people to figure out obvious things. like how putting passage on ur warjacks still gets ur infantry all shot!!!@
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Post by postindirty on Dec 5, 2017 0:49:30 GMT
hardly a problem if there aren't any infantry anyway.
Its not like you know what sort of list you're trying to make a fuss about it seems
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