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Post by sgregorbmmd on Nov 21, 2017 11:59:25 GMT
Welp, it's been almost a year and a half and my two units of beautifully-painted Steelhead Cavalry modified to look like winged hussars are still shadows of what they were in MkII. I think I'm just going to buy a few lance bits and convert them into Llaelese knights, by which I mean 'storm lances' or maybe 'vengers.' Has anyone tried running two units of cavalry in Llaelese Resistance with MacBain or Ashlynn? It seems awesome on paper, but I won't be in a position to test it for a few more months.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 21, 2017 21:17:23 GMT
I haven't done 2 yet, but I have run Flamebringers (paired with Daughters) with Ashlynn and it is hilarious. I personally see us (when running 2 Cav Units) running 2 different units. In each situation I think having both units will help with variety of threats and different uses. Vengers and Daughters function differently and have different applications. Vengers help with armor cracking; Daughters help with infantry and getting deep into your opponent's army fast. Storm Lances are (again) for armor cracking while Blazers are for sniping out key targets and infantry... well, Lances can deal with infantry pretty well too. I guess it really depends on which caster you are using in the end. G2 is going to be a viable option once people get used to playing him properly. His armor buff is huge for Vengers/Lances along with Ghost Walk allowing them to blow past other models to get where they need to be. Lances are one unit I would consider running 2 of.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 22, 2017 0:48:38 GMT
Storm Lances look amazing with him in LR. The only problem seems to be he also wants some BG 'jacks with guns, and a unit of chumps to harvest. Those eat up a lot of points, but I'm sure someone will find the right balance and lay some hurt down. Two min units or one max of Choir + Storm Lances are going to be very common soon in 'Mercs.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Nov 22, 2017 7:12:14 GMT
Two min units or one max of Choir + Storm Lances are going to be very common soon in 'Mercs. You cant have Choir (PoM) and Storm Lances (Cygnar) in the same LR list. Both out of faction units have to be from the same faction.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 22, 2017 14:32:52 GMT
Two min units or one max of Choir + Storm Lances are going to be very common soon in 'Mercs. You cant have Choir (PoM) and Storm Lances (Cygnar) in the same LR list. Both out of faction units have to be from the same faction. The unfortunate truth...can you imagine trenchers and errants? An actual infantry list!
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 22, 2017 14:43:34 GMT
i have also never tried double cav with those two casters. hope that helps!
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 22, 2017 20:48:50 GMT
You cant have Choir (PoM) and Storm Lances (Cygnar) in the same LR list. Both out of faction units have to be from the same faction. The unfortunate truth...can you imagine trenchers and errants? An actual infantry list! Really? I read it as such in the theme text, but War Room let me populate it as such without flagging them red. I know it's buggy, so maybe that is the issue.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 22, 2017 23:19:13 GMT
It is a known bug. You can only have units from the same faction, no cross faction epicness.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 23, 2017 0:03:14 GMT
It is a known bug. You can only have units from the same faction, no cross faction epicness. Well, there goes my Gastone2 list. I suppose I can salvage the concept without the Choir....though I don't want to.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 27, 2017 14:26:20 GMT
It might just be me...but I feel like choir isn't doing enough to justify their inclusion. They are amazing in a theme that encourages a ton of jacks or has a gameplan that revolves around jacks, but in LR, I don't see a ton of jacks as the way I want to build the list. Could just be me though.
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Post by borderprince on Nov 27, 2017 16:51:07 GMT
It might just be me...but I feel like choir isn't doing enough to justify their inclusion. They are amazing in a theme that encourages a ton of jacks or has a gameplan that revolves around jacks, but in LR, I don't see a ton of jacks as the way I want to build the list. Could just be me though. LR isn't a jack theme, but I think the choir does offer some interesting options. Unlike in Menoth, I don't think Choir is required, but they open up some ways of playing. As noted earlier in the thread, 10pt Vanguards with Choir bonuses are quite good: - Quite accurate (especially with Ashlynn); - Quite hard-hitting - well above most lights. Their Guisarme hits as hard as a Marauder, which is impressive for a light jack. It looks like they can really do quite well with just their single focus to assault: they're accurate enough not to need to boost most the time and they get multiple attacks benefiting from Battle. They won't kill a heavy, but they can dent it nicely for a single focus; - Tough (both due to the shield and to set defence, and no knockdown if in Ashylnn's battlegroup). I wouldn't give up all my heavies for them, but I would certainly consider one or two in place of heavies. Even more so if they improved the model's pose... MacBain! with Jackhammer and Hymn of Battle could be interesting with all the 2" melee range in mercs, especially stacked with Ragman. There's also the interesting point that while the LR theme gives actions to lots of different units, it's one of the few themes where the number of units is in effect capped. Thorn GM are capped at 2, then there are 2 Cygnaran or Protectorate units and then there's just the Devil Dogs (who still work better in Cygnar, thanks to assault) and Blythe and Bull. That might mean there are more points left for jacks than people might expect and Choir give a means to make those jacks do more work. So the choice about a combat unit vs Choir might be more difficult in that context.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 27, 2017 17:44:44 GMT
It might just be me...but I feel like choir isn't doing enough to justify their inclusion. They are amazing in a theme that encourages a ton of jacks or has a gameplan that revolves around jacks, but in LR, I don't see a ton of jacks as the way I want to build the list. Could just be me though. LR isn't a jack theme, but I think the choir does offer some interesting options. Unlike in Menoth, I don't think Choir is required, but they open up some ways of playing. As noted earlier in the thread, 10pt Vanguards with Choir bonuses are quite good: - Quite accurate (especially with Ashlynn); - Quite hard-hitting - well above most lights. Their Guisarme hits as hard as a Marauder, which is impressive for a light jack. It looks like they can really do quite well with just their single focus to assault: they're accurate enough not to need to boost most the time and they get multiple attacks benefiting from Battle. They won't kill a heavy, but they can dent it nicely for a single focus; - Tough (both due to the shield and to set defence, and no knockdown if in Ashylnn's battlegroup). I wouldn't give up all my heavies for them, but I would certainly consider one or two in place of heavies. Even more so if they improved the model's pose... MacBain! with Jackhammer and Hymn of Battle could be interesting with all the 2" melee range in mercs, especially stacked with Ragman. There's also the interesting point that while the LR theme gives actions to lots of different units, it's one of the few themes where the number of units is in effect capped. Thorn GM are capped at 2, then there are 2 Cygnaran or Protectorate units and then there's just the Devil Dogs (who still work better in Cygnar, thanks to assault) and Blythe and Bull. That might mean there are more points left for jacks than people might expect and Choir give a means to make those jacks do more work. So the choice about a combat unit vs Choir might be more difficult in that context. I can definitely see what you are saying, but I'm not seeing more than maybe 3 or 4 jacks in theme. More than that seems...plausible? With the extra points from taking a "cheap" unit like the choir, I suppose I could see more. At that point, I would imagine you aren't running Ashlynn as she doesn't add too much to anything other than Vanguards and is focus hungry. If you are running Gastonne, you are wasting one of his two upkeeps, so that seems bad. The Hellslingers are almost ok with Choir and Galleon, but then you probably want a min unit and the other unit is going to have to be very self sufficient, and it's still worse than running him in Cygnar. So MACBAIN!!! seems like the only really valid choice with a big battlegroup, Galleon included, and possibly a unit of Vengers with Countermeasure? Obviously, just my two cents, but the choir seems to bring more skornergy than assistance in a theme with so few benefits for jacks and such limited in faction unit selection.
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Post by postindirty on Nov 27, 2017 21:13:49 GMT
So MACBAIN!!! seems like the only really valid choice with a big battlegroup, Galleon included, and possibly a unit of Vengers with Countermeasure? Obviously, just my two cents, but the choir seems to bring more skornergy than assistance in a theme with so few benefits for jacks and such limited in faction unit selection. I have to actually try building the list again, but I'm coming around to the idea that a unit with counter-measures is not much more than a gotcha that only really works on feat turn. Initially I was thinking of running Errants so they could self sac and keep that one annoying CM'ed dude alive, and your idea Cavalry might change things up too. But if you're running choir you're only using CM to stop magical shooting anyways. And CM on a vanguard can serve the function of stopping a bunch of shooting in that case.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 28, 2017 15:34:23 GMT
So MACBAIN!!! seems like the only really valid choice with a big battlegroup, Galleon included, and possibly a unit of Vengers with Countermeasure? Obviously, just my two cents, but the choir seems to bring more skornergy than assistance in a theme with so few benefits for jacks and such limited in faction unit selection. I have to actually try building the list again, but I'm coming around to the idea that a unit with counter-measures is not much more than a gotcha that only really works on feat turn. I did initially I was thinking of running Errants so they could self sac and keep that one annoying CM'ed dude alive, and your idea Cavalry might change things up too. But if you're running choir you're only using CM to stop magical shooting anyways. And CM on a vanguard can serve the function of stopping a bunch of shooting in a that case. I think the rest of it holds up, but you're absolutely right about the Vanguard. Hadn't even considered that.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 28, 2017 15:52:33 GMT
supposing they move 5" away from the vanguard or kill it with melee attacks???€
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