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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 20, 2017 0:24:11 GMT
Do we really need a colossal that has a 1:6 chance of exploding? Depends on the size of the explosion. Maybe not if it was a wet fart, maybe yes if it was the size of a small African country. What about a wet fart the size of a small African country?
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Post by Blargaliscious on Nov 20, 2017 3:38:31 GMT
Indeed. It would actually be a warjack where the Graylord Covenant used leftover Beserker cortexes, and be subject to the risk of explosion. If it was a colossal...it might be worth it. Do we really need a colossal that has a 1:6 chance of exploding? A huge-based warjack that has 2" reach fists and berserk like the Berserker? I dunno... Give it big axes that have 4" reach and you can consider that sum-un-a-biztch a winner. I can already hear all of the other factions screaming their brains out right now.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 20, 2017 15:42:18 GMT
Do we really need a colossal that has a 1:6 chance of exploding? A huge-based warjack that has 2" reach fists and berserk like the Berserker? I dunno... Give it big axes that have 4" reach and you can consider that sum-un-a-biztch a winner. I can already hear all of the other factions screaming their brains out right now. Meanwhile Legion is desperately hoping the Ogrun CID will save the faction while also expecting it to fail spectacularly and not trusting PP to do anything right.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Nov 20, 2017 22:52:03 GMT
[Me blathering about stupid stuff.] Meanwhile Legion is desperately hoping the Ogrun CID will save the faction while also expecting it to fail spectacularly and not trusting PP to do anything right. Sounds like typical Warmahordes discussion on the internet. If you look around the Khador forum you should see some threads with "CID Prep" in the title. These threads allowed us Kommanders to discuss what we would like to see in the upcoming Armored Korps CID and be better prepared. I suggest that the Legion section do the same thing to prepare - it should help prevent getting blind-sided at the start and organize thoughts for suggestions. Done right, it will also allow you guys to figure out Needs from Wants and Stupid Suggestions. If you want, since I know Legion stuff also, I could moderate the threads for you guys. Think about it.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 20, 2017 23:50:38 GMT
Meanwhile Legion is desperately hoping the Ogrun CID will save the faction while also expecting it to fail spectacularly and not trusting PP to do anything right. Sounds like typical Warmahordes discussion on the internet. If you look around the Khador forum you should see some threads with "CID Prep" in the title. These threads allowed us Kommanders to discuss what we would like to see in the upcoming Armored Korps CID and be better prepared. I suggest that the Legion section do the same thing to prepare - it should help prevent getting blind-sided at the start and organize thoughts for suggestions. Done right, it will also allow you guys to figure out Needs from Wants and Stupid Suggestions. If you want, since I know Legion stuff also, I could moderate the threads for you guys. Think about it. We're psuedo-discussing it already. There's not a dedicated thread for it (except mine which is focused on non-ogrun models we might want to see in the CID), but with Primal Terrors out we've talked about theoretical changes as a side topic within multiple threads.
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Post by tapecrawler on Nov 21, 2017 23:26:06 GMT
Take Blargaliscious up on his offer. I think he’d do well to keep the topics steered in a constructive direction and he's already familiar with Legion so that will be helpful as well. It would be better to have coherent threads following a single issue than have disparate thoughts spread over multiple threads allowing good/interesting ideas to fall through the cracks. And that way you guys and gals can present a unified front with consistent direction when dealing with PP.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 22, 2017 4:50:34 GMT
Take Blargaliscious up on his offer. I think he’d do well to keep the topics steered in a constructive direction and he's already familiar with Legion so that will be helpful as well. It would be better to have coherent threads following a single issue than have disparate thoughts spread over multiple threads allowing good/interesting ideas to fall through the cracks. And that way you guys and gals can present a unified front with consistent direction when dealing with PP. I actually just started a thread today haha.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Nov 22, 2017 19:43:08 GMT
Right, because the whole point of CID is for faction partisans to theorymachine a wish list and then lobby in a coordinated fashion for PP to give them what they want.
No wonder the game is in the state it’s in...
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 22, 2017 20:21:43 GMT
Right, because the whole point of CID is for faction partisans to theorymachine a wish list and then lobby in a coordinated fashion for PP to give them what they want. No wonder the game is in the state it’s in... Is the game really in a terrible state? I thought the main issues were a couple of Cryx themes, but overall nothing else seems crazy unbalanced. I'm a bit out of the loop recently. I've also not seen any indication that PP listens to the CID lobbying, either.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Nov 22, 2017 20:52:54 GMT
Right, because the whole point of CID is for faction partisans to theorymachine a wish list and then lobby in a coordinated fashion for PP to give them what they want. No wonder the game is in the state it’s in... Is the game really in a terrible state? I thought the main issues were a couple of Cryx themes, but overall nothing else seems crazy unbalanced. I'm a bit out of the loop recently. I've also not seen any indication that PP listens to the CID lobbying, either. This may be getting off topic, but I wouldn’t say it is in a terrible state, however it could be better and I’m not sure CID is particularly helping that much. For example, out of those couple of Cryx themes you identified, one of them (Banes) came out of CID, and the other one had a key piece (the Machine Wraith) come out of CID. I just have a lot of concerns about how the CID process is playing out, both for how is affecting the game itself (possible codex creep, design by committee, etc) and what it has done to the community (people talking less about what they have and more about what PP should change), and this idea that we should be engaging in lobbying as a faction community for what we want, and preparing arguments against the other factions who will complain that our stuff is OP, is emblematic of those issues.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 22, 2017 21:41:33 GMT
Right, because the whole point of CID is for faction partisans to theorymachine a wish list and then lobby in a coordinated fashion for PP to give them what they want. No wonder the game is in the state it’s in... Is the game really in a terrible state? I thought the main issues were a couple of Cryx themes, but overall nothing else seems crazy unbalanced. I'm a bit out of the loop recently. I've also not seen any indication that PP listens to the CID lobbying, either. Depends on who you talk to, really. Though, empirically its quite obvious that some factions are way better off than others, and other factions are quite worse off than others.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Nov 23, 2017 8:13:50 GMT
The purpose of these CID Prep threads was not to coordinate a lobbying campaign so much as to create a baseline idea of where we think different units need to go if/when they go through CID. If there wasn't any discussion ahead of time I think a lot of CID people would be blind-sided by what PP puts out as their initial proposals. I'm hoping it will also lessen the chance that dumbasses will chime in with stupid comments that will hurt the faction more than help. If you look through the CID Prep threads here in the Khador forum you won't see any "OK guys, here is what we are going to push for" garbage, you'll see discussion about what roles the units play in the game and how to best achieve that.
From the comments that have popped up here on Lormahordes I'm starting to see confirmation of an oddball theory I've had rolling around in the back of my head: different factions attract different kinds of players and engender certain characteristics in those players that identify with that faction.
Not to be snobbish or nasty, but take a look at the angry commentary coming out of this last CID about all of the Cryx players under-playing stuff that they knew was over-powered and hyper-whining about average and below-curve units. Do you think a faction whose play style revolves around weakening the enemy and then kicking them when they are down is going to attract a player who will be open and honest in a CID for their faction? I'm not saying that Cryx players are evil, but identifying with Cryx as a faction is not exactly going to engender honest discussion.
But then again, Cryx players did have two good reasons to play dirty: they finally had a chance to buff chronically under-performing units (Bloodgorgers and Black Ogruns) and to prevent a repeat of the over-all nerf they got in the conversion from Mk2 to Mk3. What they need to learn, though, is that the old ways of winning and the days of easy-button victories are gone.
I think one of the reasons why the Khador forum has always been very active is because of all of the factions Khador is the one that most requires its players to use tactics to win the game instead of gimmicks, tricks, or shenanigans. While we Kommanders may like to joke "Apply axe to face, repeat as necessary" the good ones will realize that simplistic brute force won't win every game, you needs tactics, and the best way to learn is with open, honest discussion from each other.
I hope that the Armored Korps CID goes well - the bad stuff gets buffed appropriately and everything comes out good without anything too powerful. The last thing we need is another Karchev / Mad Dog nerf - I still don't like how they did it and the collateral damage from that was pretty harsh.
OK, I'm done spouting opinion which is probably wrong.
One last thing: Happy Thanksgiving guys.
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Post by borderprince on Nov 23, 2017 8:38:20 GMT
Not to be snobbish or nasty, but take a look at the angry commentary coming out of this last CID about all of the Cryx players under-playing stuff that they knew was over-powered and hyper-whining about average and below-curve units. Do you think a faction whose play style revolves around weakening the enemy and then kicking them when they are down is going to attract a player who will be open and honest in a CID for their faction? I'm not saying that Cryx players are evil, but identifying with Cryx as a faction is not exactly going to engender honest discussion. That really doesn't work. Someone can enjoy a playstyle when playing a game without carrying that over to anything else. At a minimum, one can want the game to balanced, to make the game more enjoyable as an activity, while choosing a particular playstyle when playing the game. Faction choice can come from playstyle, aesthetics, wanting a change, identifying with the faction goals or any combination of these and more. Not to mention people who play multiple factions, or factions with multiple playstyles (Cryx isn't just debuffs, but also recursion and traditionally warrior-heavy, for example). There might be something in the idea of some players who picked a faction because it was perceived to be more powerful/easier at a particular point (say late-Mk2), are unhappy with the Mk3 changes and are now trying to push an agenda in CID. That has nothing to do with faction identity and everything to do with the reasons those people had to choose that faction at the time they did it.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Nov 23, 2017 13:09:19 GMT
The point of CIDing bad models is elevating them to the playable level. In a meta where everything is overpowered you can't play not overpowered models. So yes, successfull CID will always give us something overpowered, it's a necessity.
You can advocate for global power level reset, but we just went through one at the start of mk3 and it turned out very bad.
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