gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jan 21, 2018 6:40:15 GMT
So I played in a small local event today in prep for LVO. Madrak1 and my standard Gunnbjorn. Went 1-1 with Madrak, threw a game against Kreuger2 because I got cute and aggressive with Madrak to score a CP to speed the game up then didn't appropriately block him in w/ the champs to prevent a double TK setup for an assassination (Kreuger was also on 2 boxes and on fire due to a botched assassination run on my part). If I had finished Megalith (6 boxes remaining) he would have died to the fire, but alas. Interesting to see how the little details can add up in the Madrak1 list, which I've generally regarded as straightforward and with not much in the way of decision making.
My other game was into Fyanna2 Oracles, but they had dropped an Angelius and a Neraph for the Throne of Everblight, Black Frost Shard, and Ice Witches. I ended up on a scenario victory on Recon because he under-allocated support models to contest with to the side with my flag but the game was over on attrition already - he had the Angel, the Seraph, the Naga and support against everything minus the Fire Eaters and one set of Battle Bears (GK was at half boxes as well).
The third game I dropped Gunnbjorn over Madrak into Rasheth / Mordikaar (Gunny beat Mordikaar). I felt very uncomfortable about trying to leverage all my stealth and concealment into a Winds of Death getup with their easy access to Eyeless Sight. I mention this primarily because I had been toying with moving Madrak to a BoH shell (either Champions double Fenns or the other way around) and doing Borka2 SotN as a riff on what Mr. Tim Banky did at ATC. Admittedly Skorne is not well loved in America, at least in the Pacific/Southwest events I've played in but I have serious concerns about it post legion CID, and there's a lot of ways to sidestep his feat and concealment bubble with ranged options (Bog Trog Mistspeaker even). Kolgrima struggles in similar ways (even more intensely into Rasheth where Castigate is a real house) but does similar things to Gunnbjorn while using the time bought to do a lot of damage.
I'm going to keep experimenting until I settle on a pair to Madrak I'm happy with, I'm still trying to understand the meta in 2018. He's definitely a rock you can build a solid pair out of, and there's a lot of cool ways to play him - I legitimately think there is a case for playing him in each and every one of our themes. Heck, I'm seriously considering giving KC Madrak some serious consideration (unchargeable War Wagons are a heck of a thing, yo). I'm not sure how much I'll post here between now ant LVO as I'll be busy making sure I don't fall behind at work and getting in as much practice as I can, but expect some live posts of my progress next Sunday followed by a more robust writeup Sunday evening as I wait for my plane at the airport.
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Klaw
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by Klaw on Jan 22, 2018 15:43:58 GMT
I've seem Madrak1 beat Rasheth handily. It was a Band of Heroes build with Warders, but still. It didn't really look close.
Player skill didn't seem to be the problem - I think both players are French WTC players (France got places 3 and 4 at the 2017 WTC).
Klaw
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jan 22, 2018 20:01:55 GMT
With Warders, it's probably a much better matchup. However my SotN getup, it relies a lot more on concealment / stealth to keep key pieces alive and therefore Rasheth can be a problem.
Ambushing bears if they're going to play a wide game might be enough to mitigate this issue but I'm still skeptical without reps.
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Post by joetortillas on Jan 23, 2018 18:47:37 GMT
How so? Guidance is only applied to a single model so it's not like the reivers will be doing a ton of work. The rasheth list remains pretty strong in concelment with rerolls on combined shots but still, I feel you can control the zones pretty well.
Was he using the cookie cutter light BG with double BE/reivers/slingers?
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jan 23, 2018 19:22:31 GMT
Well the Bears in particular don't like being scalpeled - they rely on Gang for good output so killing a bear or the handler can really disrupt plans.
During the Fyanna2 game mentioned above, my opponent one shot a bear with the Angelius gun and it prevented me from one rounding his Throne of Everblight because I had played back with my Handler to ensure I kept Gang, but now even with a run my handler couldn't turn on Gang for the remaining bear and the throne lived another turn to kill some Fire Eaters and jam in my King. And that was a piece that didn't have a good threat profile into me, I feel like a Siege Anamantarax (especially under Rasheth) would do a lot more damage to me if it were allowed to triage / two round me in the way the Throne did.
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Klaw
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by Klaw on Jan 24, 2018 14:46:45 GMT
For the moment, I'm sticking to Band of Heroes for Madrak1. I love my setup with double champs and Long Riders, which just seems to get better theme bonuses in Band of Heroes.
My pair is Kolgrima in Power of Dhunia. I'm looking to expand that list to Storm of the North after - smallish battlegroup, lots of fast, hard-hitting troops on the table. Close the gap quickly, pin down the opponent, and apply sprays liberally.
Sounds like fun to me ;-)
Klaw
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Post by Trollock on Jan 24, 2018 15:16:35 GMT
For the moment, I'm sticking to Band of Heroes for Madrak1. I love my setup with double champs and Long Riders, which just seems to get better theme bonuses in Band of Heroes. My pair is Kolgrima in Power of Dhunia. I'm looking to expand that list to Storm of the North after - smallish battlegroup, lots of fast, hard-hitting troops on the table. Close the gap quickly, pin down the opponent, and apply sprays liberally. Sounds like fun to me ;-) Klaw Over in the cryx part of the forums there are ppl who literally think Ghost Fleet is unplayable now (lol!). Do you still think the RFP part of the BoH bonuses is as important? The +2" of deployment is pretty much negated by the +1 SPD that the NK elder can provide, and his bonuses will be better on a turn by turn basis. Incorporeal will still have to be handled, but i wouldnt be surprised if you already have a couple of Sorcerers in your list. To me it feels like unless you are playing Warders of Fennblades, SotN will be the superior choice...
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Post by albertairish on Jan 24, 2018 15:23:42 GMT
For the moment, I'm sticking to Band of Heroes for Madrak1. I love my setup with double champs and Long Riders, which just seems to get better theme bonuses in Band of Heroes. My pair is Kolgrima in Power of Dhunia. I'm looking to expand that list to Storm of the North after - smallish battlegroup, lots of fast, hard-hitting troops on the table. Close the gap quickly, pin down the opponent, and apply sprays liberally. Sounds like fun to me ;-) Klaw Over in the cryx part of the forums there are ppl who literally think Ghost Fleet is unplayable now (lol!). Do you still think the RFP part of the BoH bonuses is as important? The +2" of deployment is pretty much negated by the +1 SPD that the NK elder can provide, and his bonuses will be better on a turn by turn basis. Incorporeal will still have to be handled, but i wouldnt be surprised if you already have a couple of Sorcerers in your list. To me it feels like unless you are playing Warders of Fennblades, SotN will be the superior choice... RFP, perhaps not. But ignoring Tough is still massively important in my gaming area. Tons of Trollbloods, Skorne cats abound.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jan 24, 2018 15:26:01 GMT
For the moment, I'm sticking to Band of Heroes for Madrak1. I love my setup with double champs and Long Riders, which just seems to get better theme bonuses in Band of Heroes. My pair is Kolgrima in Power of Dhunia. I'm looking to expand that list to Storm of the North after - smallish battlegroup, lots of fast, hard-hitting troops on the table. Close the gap quickly, pin down the opponent, and apply sprays liberally. Sounds like fun to me ;-) Klaw Over in the cryx part of the forums there are ppl who literally think Ghost Fleet is unplayable now (lol!). Do you still think the RFP part of the BoH bonuses is as important? The +2" of deployment is pretty much negated by the +1 SPD that the NK elder can provide, and his bonuses will be better on a turn by turn basis. Incorporeal will still have to be handled, but i wouldnt be surprised if you already have a couple of Sorcerers in your list. To me it feels like unless you are playing Warders of Fennblades, SotN will be the superior choice... It's not just ghost fleet though. RFP and tough denial are good into so many parts of the game.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 25, 2018 11:28:31 GMT
And you guys would rather have the "no tough" ability than an optional +1 STR or +1 SPD?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jan 25, 2018 12:09:09 GMT
And you guys would rather have the "no tough" ability than an optional +1 STR or +1 SPD? Honestly I don't know.
I know that I miss the +1 strength on my beasts. I know that I'm annoyed when I can't strip stealth or Incorporeal.
I also know I really like Fennblades better than other options as I'm not willing to buy Raiders yet. and +2 inches to go first is much better than 2 snow drifts.
I think you're right though and it's definitely worth exploration and trying both.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 25, 2018 12:37:03 GMT
And you guys would rather have the "no tough" ability than an optional +1 STR or +1 SPD? Honestly I don't know.
I know that I miss the +1 strength on my beasts. I know that I'm annoyed when I can't strip stealth or Incorporeal.
I also know I really like Fennblades better than other options as I'm not willing to buy Raiders yet. and +2 inches to go first is much better than 2 snow drifts.
I think you're right though and it's definitely worth exploration and trying both.
I always figure that +2" of deployment is negated by +1 SPD on the first turn I actually played a SotN mirror match last tournament. We both decided to place our snow drifts dead center on our own table edge to avoid giving the opponents bears something to hide in. Worst theme benefit around?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jan 25, 2018 15:03:02 GMT
Honestly I don't know.
I know that I miss the +1 strength on my beasts. I know that I'm annoyed when I can't strip stealth or Incorporeal.
I also know I really like Fennblades better than other options as I'm not willing to buy Raiders yet. and +2 inches to go first is much better than 2 snow drifts.
I think you're right though and it's definitely worth exploration and trying both.
I always figure that +2" of deployment is negated by +1 SPD on the first turn I actually played a SotN mirror match last tournament. We both decided to place our snow drifts dead center on our own table edge to avoid giving the opponents bears something to hide in. Worst theme benefit around? Out of interest is the Northkin version something like this?
Madrak1 (sotN) - Runebearer - Bomber - Mauler Max Krielstone + NE Max Champions + Sorcerer Max Champions + Sorcerer Max Northkin Raiders Fell Caller Hero Valka Eilish
It seems a good list and I like the sorcerers giving magical weapons.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 25, 2018 15:27:07 GMT
Out of interest is the Northkin version something like this?
Madrak1 (sotN) - Runebearer - Bomber - Mauler Max Krielstone + NE Max Champions + Sorcerer Max Champions + Sorcerer Max Northkin Raiders Fell Caller Hero Valka Eilish
It seems a good list and I like the sorcerers giving magical weapons.
I dont really have a NK version. I just figured that if you have a BoH version that uses Champs and Long riders, you might as well do SotN. I probably would try and get bears in there if i were to play SotN. I honestly like GDnerds version a lot, so i would probably start there. I have not even begun actually playing Madrak yet, so it is all just theory at this point.
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Post by Bomma on Jan 28, 2018 8:36:59 GMT
After playing 20+ games with Madrak1 against a variety of factions and opponent skill levels my list has come back around to nearly where I started.
I've tried a lot of the suggestions in this thread and from other sources.
List I've settled on now (for the moment).. lol.
Madrak1 - Band of Heroes 75/75 Rune Bearer Glacier King
Fell Caller Hero Trollkin Champion Hero
Max Stone and Elder Max Champs, Skaldi and 2 Sorcerers Max Fennblades and UA Min Warders
B.
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