mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Jan 11, 2018 17:52:08 GMT
I put together a for funzies Bearka list that will basically have to clear one side of the board then work its way across, sending whelps and the feralgeist to contest the other zones on your turn.
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws - WB: +27 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14 - Swamp Troll - PC: 8 - Swamp Troll - PC: 8 - Dire Troll Brawler - PC: 16 - Troll Basher - PC: 7
Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 4 Feralgeist - PC: 2
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
... this might actually work...
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Post by joetortillas on Jan 12, 2018 4:07:17 GMT
Greenjello: Fair, I went a bit overboard with my statement. Stil, I don't believe these die were as crooked as rolling 5-6 staight 6s in a row. I just feel that focusing on bad dices is a really bad habbit to have, if you want to improve yourself.
Mattmcd: Kolgrimma/Madrak1 is a strong pairing and already popular with a few players, just remember that Battle charged from Bearka is only BG, not for whelps.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 12, 2018 7:06:20 GMT
You are correct, that is just superstition and you are just correlating something that would have to be tested with a few thousand rolls in a controlled environment to have any sort of truth. But hey, if it helped you guys deal with his ''luck'' better, whatever works! Not really, I don't think you understand statistics very well. What you're thinking of is a more subtle issue, where it's only slightly off, say there's a 5% chance of getting a 6 more often that the normal distribution. To take it to an extreme, if I have a warped die that rolls 6 every time, I don't need to do a thousand rolls to see it has a bias. I don't need to do 100 rolls. In that case I think about 10 would be sufficient, as the likelihood of having that many 6s in a row becomes astronomical. Most people would probably stop at 3-4 rolls, which has a probability of about 0.07% likelihood of being 6 every time, but I like to be through so I'd do more. As a practical matter, generally rolling about 5 times as the number of sides (or 30 rolls) are sufficient to do a rough test if a die is biased. rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70802/how-can-i-test-whether-a-die-is-fairI saw those dice roll repeatedly over the couple of decades we played together every few weeks. It was pretty clear they had a biased. Now there's something to be said for having a machine do the rolling, since the way the dice are rolled definitely effects things (generally the reason for those chained tough rolls), but once again not strictly necessary. A cupped hand, or a dice tower does a reasonable enough job to make such a determination. Finally I don't understand why crappy dice are such a surprise. You can get them by the handful for less than a buck, and there is no good way to determine the well made vs the cheaply made by looking. Sure I get that a lot of people like to complain about their "luck", instead of improving, but crappy dice also figure into that. OK, so i had decided that i would drop the subject (since it way off topic by now, sorry every one...), but this is basically foul play here, quoting math and hoping no one will read or understand it First of all, my guess is that you didnt keep track of all die rolls the "lucky" player did and then preformed the math described in the article on the results, right? I just did some tests in excel with the built in random number generator (should be very random, right?). In 10 series of 30 rolls i had one series with 12/30 6s. If i rolled 6 12/30 times on a gaming night, that would be a good reason to call me lucky, but if you use such a simplistic test to call my dice crooked you would be plain wrong. I preformed the math in the article on that series and got a X2 value of 15,2. That means (according to the table in the article) that there is less than a 1% chance that the "die" used should have rolled that unevenly. If you did said math during gaming night and came to the conclusion that i was using crooked dice (something we can assume that i didnt, since we can assume that the randomizing function in excel is actually random) we could get in to a heated argument, and new dice could have been purchased needlessly. Doing this test with only 30 rolls is just not a valid strategy, and even if it was the vast majority some one gets a reputation for having good dice it is on WAY less scientific basis that this test.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 12, 2018 7:40:42 GMT
Has any one played lists like the muse on minis "double fennblades-grind-fest"-list (top) or my own "F-you-cryx-and-shooting"-list (bottom)? Im not really on a Madrak kick atm so i havent even put him on the table yet...
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes
(Madrak 1) Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain [+29] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Troll Impaler [11] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Fennblade Officer and Drummer [0(5)] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes
(Madrak 1) Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain [+29] - Troll Axer [10] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Troll Impaler [11] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3] Trollkin Warders (min) [10] Trollkin Warders (min) [10]
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 12, 2018 14:57:58 GMT
I played double Fenn, double champs with Madrak1 this week. With UAs and sorcerers for the champs, it was 83 points without any support! My opponent played Jaga Jaga with Dracodile, Farrow battle engine, swamp horror, wrastler, and spiny growth gator, plus Ashley and double Efaarit. He got stomped on scenario and assassinated. One unit of Fenns kept the Dracodile and solos jammed all game while working their way around the flank, while the other jammed up the rest of his army while my champs struggled to get up the table. I had a house, a large forest, and a lake with minimal spacing blocking up most of my table side, so getting models out of my deployment zone was a pain.
Highlights of the game: charging Jaga Jaga three turns in a row (Fenn, then two champs, then some Fenn from behind) and keeping the Dracodile from moving or doing more than killing 3-4 Fenns per round after the second.
Mistakes I made: several order of activation errors, and letting one side of the board be so horrible to get across.
Anyhow, it was a neat experience, playing without the support, but I'm pretty sure in the long run I'll be trading it Eilish for a fell caller, as Pathfinder is a real problem with four units on the table.
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Post by greenjello on Jan 12, 2018 15:06:50 GMT
OK, so i had decided that i would drop the subject (since it way off topic by now, sorry every one...), but this is basically foul play here, quoting math and hoping no one will read or understand it But assertions with nothing to back them up are okay? Not trying to pull any fast ones, just seeing a lot of people making claims, and not really having anything to back them up. So I'm providing some links and the like. As for your excel test, it really depends. Really. I also won't play against somebody who uses any sort of computerized random number generator because they're SO easy to get wrong. Like really wrong. And not have it be obvious. Excel isn't any different, and is probably worse than usual. There have been entire scientific papers written on how to get a truly random number out of a computer. To summarize, you don't, though it's really easy to appear like you have. What you will get is something close to random, generally called pseudo-random. If i rolled 6 12/30 times on a gaming night, that would be a good reason to call me lucky, but if you use such a simplistic test to call my dice crooked you would be plain wrong. Okay, based on what please? I see you making a lot of direct assertions here, and not really providing anything to back them up. You've basically gotten one result for 1/3 of your rolls. Seems like a skew to me, and not an insignificant one. A lot of people would call over a judge at that point, and maybe ask for a bucket.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 12, 2018 22:04:46 GMT
I moved the dice argument to a separate thread to spare the poor innocent bystanders
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Post by deviantcad on Jan 13, 2018 1:21:21 GMT
Anyone tried something different like a Madrak1 mud wrestling list? SK, mauler, 2-3 EBDT. Jack hammer on the SK seems good.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 13, 2018 1:25:42 GMT
Anyone tried something different like a Madrak1 mud wrestling list? SK, mauler, 2-3 EBDT. Jack hammer on the SK seems good. Good, yes, but it'll only have 2" reach. It'd be handy for clearing jammers, though, so he could get to something the opponent didn't want him to reach.
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Post by Ajax on Jan 16, 2018 0:29:55 GMT
You know, I'm really surprised that I haven't seen much Wrongeye + Snapjaw in the list. It just seems to add that extra 'eff you' layer to the list. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0a4N0r9Djq6G6MbF0k0miTbKiTcCTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes (Madrak 1) Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Wrong Eye [17] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3]
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jan 16, 2018 2:10:23 GMT
Personally I don't like it because IMO every part of the package is unnecessary. Your champs will be Def 16 in melee which is already super hard to do anything to, especially when you add sanguine bond and tough/steady on top of it. The small Star Crossed aura means it doesn't work against ranged. You don't need Snapjaw to crack armor because you have Champions, and the resiliency of the piece (submerge) is not needed because your champs are already really hard to deal with. Just take another unit of something and you'll be happier for it.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 16, 2018 4:16:19 GMT
I've been trying double champs double Fennblades with bomber+bouncer and a fell caller and rune bearer. There's no points left for the stone, and I have to make a couple command attachments free to afford it, but it is interesting. Sanguine bond isn't nearly as good at arm 16, but all those bodies are problematic for the opponent. I've got two games in one dominating victory and a painful loss. Irusk in Jaws of the wolf managed to beat me on scenario while being me on attrition. I'm going to stick with it for another three games before I make a decision, but I really want my krielstone back.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Jan 16, 2018 4:19:10 GMT
Personally I don't like it because IMO every part of the package is unnecessary. Your champs will be Def 16 in melee which is already super hard to do anything to, especially when you add sanguine bond and tough/steady on top of it. The small Signs & Portents aura means it doesn't work against ranged. You don't need Snapjaw to crack armor because you have Champions, and the resiliency of the piece (submerge) is not needed because your champs are already really hard to deal with. Just take another unit of champs and you'll be happier for it. The list above already has two units of champs in it. Although I agree with you in general and would rather have some Fennblades in there to jam with, or bears if I'm going to be using SotN
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Post by grabsnikk on Jan 16, 2018 4:37:11 GMT
Personally I don't like it because IMO every part of the package is unnecessary. Your champs will be Def 16 in melee which is already super hard to do anything to, especially when you add sanguine bond and tough/steady on top of it. The small Signs & Portents aura means it doesn't work against ranged. You don't need Snapjaw to crack armor because you have Champions, and the resiliency of the piece (submerge) is not needed because your champs are already really hard to deal with. Just take another unit of champs and you'll be happier for it. I think you mean Star Crossed aura 😛
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jan 16, 2018 5:42:17 GMT
Fixed and fixed
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