mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 24, 2017 15:56:12 GMT
In POD I'd say the rune bearer is vital because it is so hard to reach spread out zones with B2's tiny control area that you basically lose the ability to counter-charge with him, but in Storm that may well not be a problem. I was about to say try switching him for whelps, but between the gobber chef and pile of cheap dudes, I should think you'd have at least one beast worth of whelp per round, unless they devote a high accuracy gun to a cheap support model, in which case you say thank you for not shooting something valuable. I say try Valka so you get even more counter-charge.
The earthborn is the fastest thing you can afford to throw away, so I'd be reluctant to swap him. Besides, with primal he can charge in and make a real mess, then be a durable block that you don't mind not getting to use next turn because you expect him to die.
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Post by sundaytaco on Nov 25, 2017 18:40:26 GMT
im doing the 5-10 game challenge with him, and I am considering , after 6 games, removing troll moses. I don't deny the utility of +2'' control area or harmonious exhaltation (free flaming fists!) but i notice that I play him so far forward that troll moses cannot both, be safe, and be in 5'' of B2. GRanted that my list is not the best, but I aggressively use borka as very duraable heavy. between swarm, stealth on feat turn, and the stone, he likes to be forward. I've also started including lynus and edrea in my lists with B2 to let him charge a heavy, impact, and then melee, picking the spirit/cortex to remove before retreating 3'' with repo. Their jack/beast is now KD without the ability to force. It allows him to be safer than you think and at def14/16 arm 20/22, he is very far forward. The only thing that I am currently having trouble with is the fact that he is SO fast compared to his boys. He does so much work. Anyway, after all that blabbering, here's what im working with, Im considering taking out pyre troll and troll moses and adding a second fire eater unit.... but until then
Storm of the north Borka2 troll moses Swamp troll Rok Troll Axer Mauler
Fell caller hero Whelps x 1 Stone (min) -UA Kriel Warriors (max) Fire Eaters Lynus and Edrea
I think the northkin raiders will really help what I am trying to do, but they aren't released yet, and they are also 85$ (yikes) Pyre troll
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 25, 2017 21:21:23 GMT
Figuring out where to put the rune bearer so I could counter-charge and still keep everything in control AND keep the bearer reasonably safe was very tricky in POD. I rather like the Lynus&Edrea idea! I tended to keep B2 in the second rank so he could counter-charge whatever went in on the front rank. I get the impression you are playing him more aggressively than that, though.
I'm rather surprised to hear you thinking about taking it the pyre to put in fire-eaters. Do you plan to just have them light each other up, then? I like swapping the warriors for the raiders, I have a feeling they are going to be a staple in a lot of lists.
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Post by sundaytaco on Nov 26, 2017 17:28:17 GMT
Its tough, beause as the whole point of this thread, is that borka is kitted as a beast caster but is fury 5. Late in the game the pyre just ends up causing something to frenzy or frenzying himself. i do plan on them just lighting eachother up. i do play him very far forward and using L&E to disable their beasts one at a time so he is deceptively safe
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 26, 2017 22:46:11 GMT
What if you use two batches of whelps and use them liberally? And use tricks like this Lynus & Edrea thing to keep him reasonably safe even on a low camp? Could he handle the fury load then?
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 26, 2017 23:35:21 GMT
Double whelps worked great in my B2 PoD list, so I suspect that would fix the problem. It's cheaper then cutting the pyre, too! I usually deployed a full set and spawned the other set.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 27, 2017 1:00:12 GMT
How's this for testing out these ideas? conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0biV9DiRjpjoiU0hjq6R6R0ki-fBTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3] Lynus Wesselbaum & Edrea Lloryrr [5]
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Post by sundaytaco on Nov 27, 2017 5:17:52 GMT
Im trying to stay in storm of the north. If you haven't tried his feat with kriel warriros/raiders, It's very powerful. In PoD, when B2 feats, very often, the reaction to the feat is to just jam all of the heavies with chump infanrty or med base stuff. With a unit and carefull positioning, you can often "wall" off half of the field so the beasts have some breathing room and are much more difficult to jam. Granted, i would love to play mulg with B2
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Nov 27, 2017 6:14:03 GMT
If you haven't tried his feat with kriel warriros/raiders, Totally agree with that. Cheap infantry really push the feat cos jamming goes to next level. Kriels are cheaper but raiders have better def, more attacks (sort of) and better mat.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 27, 2017 7:12:45 GMT
Raiders also have +1 SPD and AD. that is HUGE for jamming
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Post by sundaytaco on Nov 27, 2017 14:08:20 GMT
Raiders aren't released yet >.< Ahhhhh. they are also so many dollars :{. but yes I def want them
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Post by Trollock on Nov 27, 2017 14:30:14 GMT
Raiders aren't released yet >.< Ahhhhh. they are also so many dollars :{. but yes I def want them They ARE released
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Post by sundaytaco on Nov 27, 2017 15:30:01 GMT
Raiders aren't released yet >.< Ahhhhh. they are also so many dollars :{. but yes I def want them They ARE released Frick. My wallet.... Im sure they aren't going to be less then 85$ ever....luckily i have a 10$ off coupon for pp? :\ lol
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Dec 1, 2017 6:53:52 GMT
(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Troll Whelps [4] Kriel Warriors (max) [11] - Kriel Warrior Standard & Piper [3] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Some thoughts about list, that I have to test more: - Do I need whelps? - Could EDBT be Bouncer and something else, like Valka? - Is runebearer actually worth of 5p, cos he is so slow compared to borka. +2 control is really nice ability even if I have to run every turn, but not sure if it's worth 5p. Got two more games with list. First one was hard learning for my opponent how important scanario game is and second game was hard learning to me about charging Borka. Lessons learned: - Kriel warriors are OK unit, but raiders will help crowding up activation order as they can run first to positions from AD line and then other stuff can activate, while kriels have to activate after Borka and stone (on turn 1). - Runebearer do not keep up with borka, and while 1 fury on turn 1 is good, it's not worth of 6 points. Valka in! - Borka can trash heavy with 3 fury - EDBT have to be on control range if I want to cast his animus. EDBT is not on control range if it starts at same line with Borka and Borka charge 10" forward. - Borka is much more safe if he reposition himself out of second heavyjacks threat range. - Shield guard would be nice, if enemy has Eiryss1. I get my Northkin stuff next week, so my next iteration will be: Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. (Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Troll Bouncer [9] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Feralgeist [2] Troll Whelps [4] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] I got only 2 heavy beasts, but bears can handle armor as well. Also now I have shield guard and always useful reach counter-charge. (but lost pathfinder heavy) I really want to test Lynus&Edrea as well, but not sure should I drop Feralgaist and extra stone dudes or whepls+feralgaist?
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Post by Trollock on Dec 1, 2017 7:10:09 GMT
Beasts being out of control if Borka goes charging off on the first turn is a problem. It is however not true that the EBDT in question will always be outside 10" if you move borka 10" forward, since you can measure from the back of his base. The easy solution here is to run the EBDT first. Same goes for the other beasts. This has always been the procedure for our fury 5 casters imo. Also, charging borka turn 1 for extra distance seems clumsy. Better walk and then reposition. You can still move 10", but you can decide exactly where you end up, and what way you face. Lynus and Edrea seems cute, but not very good. 5 points spent for very little work, especially if you say Borka just kills heavies outright. Granted that they will be superb in a cloud wall match up, but the rest of the time they are a point sink, at least it seems so to me. I like that you are questioning the runebearer. Not sure it is the right call, but this type of critical thinking is what is needed to unlock a caster to the full potential! Are you sure that this big a battle group is the way to go? This list is in the "wasteland" that is somewhere between a beast brick and an infantry swarm nowadays. It really cuts in to the points efficiency. The brawler, though a good beast seems like the odd man out. Perhaps more bears could accomplish the same things and allow you a third free solo? Trollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North (Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] (or Skaldi if you do not think you need the +2 MAT on anything)Swamp Gobber Chef [1] (or a Feralgeist if you do not think you need any fury management and have a point over)Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Trollkin Champions (min) [10] (these and the second unit of bears are supposed to pick up the slack of the lost Brawler)
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