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Post by Trollock on Nov 2, 2017 14:38:24 GMT
Traditionally Borka 2 has been played (or rather not played, lol) as a beast caster. PoD was the way you played him, since counter charge and the feat was his shtick. The improvements made to him in CID still lets you play PoD just like before, but with a caster that is stronger over all. SotN muddles things a bit though. The feat is pretty good on cheap models that are immune to frost too. It turns out that a heavy that punches a Kriel Warrior and then becomes stationary is a sad heavy. Snow shroud is also reasonably decent on DEF 12-13 infantry. Not really something you build a list around, but it is probably better on single wound models than on beasts, since the beasts basically only care about boostable guns anyway, and those can boost to hit too. Borka 2 thus has a feat that works very similarly no matter if he brings infantry (in SotN) or beasts in PoD. He has a spell that offers slight protection to infantry and even slighter protection to beasts. He has another spell that makes his beasts counter charge. He has a field marshal that lets his beasts benefit from the NK elder and HHH. He has Fury 5, which makes him bad at running big beast packages. When you add all this together what conclusion do you reach? Will you keep on doing the PoD thing and be happy about Borkas improved resilience and personal output, or will you go the other way, and say that Borka does not really support anything super well except with his feat, and bringing self sufficient units should work just as well or even better than bringing beasts who will burden Borkas fury management? Im not at all sure where i stand on the discussion, but i AM sure that there has been way too little discussion of Borka 2 since he was updated. I get that Madrak 1 is probably WAY better and he hogs all the attention atm, but Borka 2 is one of our best looking models, and many of us have wished him to be playable since he was released. I am confident that he IS playable now, just not HOW to play him
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Nov 2, 2017 14:46:41 GMT
At the moment I have no idea what to do with him.
I do feel he definitely needs the Cold Stone to work, so I'm waiting for the northkin releases before I give him a try. Beasts all being northkin and getting the benefits of the stone seems good, maybe.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 2, 2017 17:14:51 GMT
I'm quite interested in him in Storm, too. I've built a BoH list or two for him, but never fielded them because they just didn't feel good, but Feating on cheap infantry sounds pretty awesome. When the Northkin drop I will be experimenting with it, but at the casual level. I hope that some of you competitive players will do the same!
Arcaux, as a casual player I have found him functional with the... warm stone. Old stone? We need to work out a term for that. Anyhow, I agree he'll be a lot more interesting with the cold stone, but I'm not sure it is necessary in PoD. In Storm it seems like a no-brainer to take the cold stone.
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Post by Ajax on Nov 2, 2017 21:10:45 GMT
With the new War Room push, I think Borka 2 does best as a balanced list, though I would argue that in the end it doesn't matter. Take whatever compliments your second list best.
I'm planning on playing him much like a Butcher 3. Everything else is simply a way to carve a path into their caster with Borka himself. Lanyssa is an auto-include in my opinion, being able to charge from 14 inches away on a high mat, high pow caster seems ridiculous. Much like Butcher 3, you can go with units or beasts, but Borka will be the main pull.
I'm not speaking from any experience, as I haven't put him on the table yet (soon!), but he synergizes extremely well with the Fire Eaters and Bears. The Bears essentially have perma-stealth thanks to Borka's concealment spell, and are tough enough to survive a hit and give stationary on feat turn.
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Post by mydnight on Nov 2, 2017 22:30:52 GMT
The ability to give any beast +1 spd from the elder is pretty nice, and the runebearer's increase in control really helps, but he still doesn't seem to do beast heavy better than our other casters. I just like him in PoD because Mulg+Rok together is sweet Counter-charging and angry moving mulg is also nice.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Nov 2, 2017 23:43:55 GMT
First blush list (uh-oh,models to buy...):
Storm of the North Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Ice Troll [9] - Troll Basher [7] - Troll Bouncer [9] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)]
Gotta have a decent amount of heavy-hitters to smack those frozen targets HARD...
As to the OP's question, I liked playing Borka2 beast-heavy in MKII, but really it was more of a handicapping game for me. His new iteration also doesn't seem to create that proactive Battlegroup 'magic' that a Karchev1 or Amon1 or Kaya3 provides.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 2, 2017 23:52:23 GMT
As a countercharge brick I think there's room for him + knot + stone and a ton of heavies. You have to be really comfortable going empty every turn / bring at least two sets of whelps but I think he can 100% be played the 5-6 heavy way.
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Post by moses64 on Nov 3, 2017 2:28:23 GMT
I have ran this list with success. I think I will modify it and remove the shaman in favor of another unit of whelps. While counter charge is something that can be avoided, it has made the opponents I have played plan around it. Having a counter charging Mulg with crit smite, Borka who can knock things down with his mount or crit smite, or a winter troll with his animus up can be concerning. I'm not a competitive player by any stretch of the imagination, but I've had fun with it.
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia
!!! Your army contains a pre-release entry.
(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Rok [19] - Troll Axer [10] - Winter Troll [8] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3]
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
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Post by mazog on Nov 3, 2017 2:46:24 GMT
Moses, have you had B2 cast the winter coat and then counter-charge? It's hilarious to do with the swamp Animus, and it seems even funnier with stationary. IIRC, their activation ends when they fall down, so I suppose you could knock down with mount, freeze with Animus, and then critical smite, if you get really lucky. That'll mess up somebody's day for sure!
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Post by Trollock on Nov 3, 2017 7:33:36 GMT
Moses, have you had B2 cast the winter coat and then counter-charge? It's hilarious to do with the swamp Animus, and it seems even funnier with stationary. IIRC, their activation ends when they fall down, so I suppose you could knock down with mount, freeze with Animus, and then critical smite, if you get really lucky. That'll mess up somebody's day for sure! Winter coat triggers when the ENEMY MODEL ends its activation.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 3, 2017 16:01:34 GMT
Right, but doesn't a models activation end immediately when it is knocked down?
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Nov 3, 2017 17:35:29 GMT
So question about Borka 2. As long as you get within the half inch, it would make more sense to keep buying mount attacks right? Seems like trauma is taking a back seat.
Edit: barring of course if they are immune to knockdown.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
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Post by mazog on Nov 3, 2017 18:11:37 GMT
It depends on if you have strength buffs up. Those don't apply to the mount. Given that you can get up to+4 strength (being hurt and cold Stone) the higher ps on trauma can overwhelm the weapon master on average.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 3, 2017 18:25:27 GMT
Right, but doesn't a models activation end immediately when it is knocked down? Oh, you are correct. I misunderstood
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Nov 3, 2017 22:44:37 GMT
It depends on if you have strength buffs up. Those don't apply to the mount. Given that you can get up to+4 strength (being hurt and cold Stone) the higher ps on trauma can overwhelm the weapon master on average. and if you take a pyre along you can get an extra +2 damage on top of the +4 strength. put the chiller animus from the basher on him and you also have a +2 hit buff on anything you want to get close to add a fellcaller for another +2 hit and you are good to go and live the dream: 1 pow 16 mount impact attack (if the +2 dmg from pyre works on that) at mat 12 if you hit, then your target is knocked down and 6 p&s 21 attacks on a knocked down target should finish any caster.
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