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Post by streetpizza on Nov 7, 2017 16:24:38 GMT
The comparision is disheartening... Both are 21pt units, Both are POW 13, both threat 11"... Then everything changes and it's likely to go in favor of the IFP than the Ravagers... If nothing else it's 11 attacks vs 7.... Until you factor in the mini feat and heart tokens. Lets not sell ravagers too short now.
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Post by jisidro on Nov 7, 2017 16:44:05 GMT
The comparision is disheartening... Both are 21pt units, Both are POW 13, both threat 11"... Then everything changes and it's likely to go in favor of the IFP than the Ravagers... If nothing else it's 11 attacks vs 7.... Until you factor in the mini feat and heart tokens. Lets not sell ravagers too short now. Black Dragons: And iron zeal and tactics: sidestep and precision strike and CMA and Shield Wall and Practiced maneuvers and crit KD with 5 more bodies and 4 more attacks
IFP: And Defensive formation and tactics: relentless and crit KD with 5 more bodies and 4 more attacks
against Pathfinder, +1 DEF, +1 ARM, +4HP, Tough, Forest Walker, Heart-taker, Granted: Vengeance and Granted:Mini Feat
There you are, you tell me...
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 7, 2017 17:47:21 GMT
Didn't say IFP weren't better I said you were selling the ravagers short in purely hit count comparison without factoring in the minifeat.
It's not simply 11 attacks vs 7.
If you want to talk actual comparisons though, IFP are way more vulnerable to snipers, anatomical precision and con't fire/corrosion (since they'll be blobbed up for shield wall). Ravagers can make much better use of terrain for defense boosting purposes. They are tools that have different uses within their factions. IFP use armor to set a front line and then hit back hard in retaliation. Ravagers use terrain to establish position and then clear infantry like a boss while offering middling damage on harder targets.
Its almost like they're different units in different factions with different roles ... who knew?
Really I think both units are appropriately costed and function well in their respective factions. Ravagers could maybe use a 1pt reduction but that's it. They bring far too much to the table to be less than 20pts for the 7 bodies.
If you're looking for an IFP comparison in circle you're much better off checking against skinwalkers. Durable front line infantry that pack a punch but is mainly meant to hold ground until bigger badder units can do the damage.
If you really want to see battle lust get out of hand in circle specifically then I would look at wolves of orboros. Mini feat + battle lust will actually start to threaten heavies pretty badly. Ravagers having it in Devourer's is also very frightening since they can buy extra attacks with the starting heart tokens to really get the most out of it. Or hell dare I suggest it ... battle lusted Lord of the feast with three heart tokens. Raven in and 4 attacks with the extra die damage. Not bad.
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Post by elshinare on Nov 21, 2017 5:44:32 GMT
So, maybe my my thoughts on this are wrong, but call of the Wild effects the animus of the warbeasts only, not the caster casting the spell correct?
I.E. Warlock cannot be throwing amuck out for free on all the warbeasts then casting everything else. Was trying to think of a list that could abuse a few animi.
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Post by Forsaken on Nov 21, 2017 9:30:30 GMT
Only the warbeast forcing the animus has the reduced cost.
Some suggestions: Because you have an extra fury the Feral WW a Gorax can buy an extra attack or boost even when they primal. Same for the Wild Argus and Doppler bark. The Shadowhorn and Riphorn can jank models even better with free animus. You no longer need to save a fury for the WW Stalker to sprint either. Una1 runs the Razorwing slightly better because you don't need her to put amuck up for him. The Scarsfel and Gnarlhorn can always have their defensive tech up without worrying about overloading fury.
Sadly, I think this is going to really limit future animus for our living warbeasts. There goes my dreams of Rush in faction.ðŸ˜
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 21, 2017 20:23:40 GMT
Only the warbeast forcing the animus has the reduced cost. Some suggestions: Because you have an extra fury the Feral WW a Gorax can buy an extra attack or boost even when they primal. Same for the Wild Argus and Doppler bark. The Shadowhorn and Riphorn can jank models even better with free animus. You no longer need to save a fury for the WW Stalker to sprint either. Una1 runs the Razorwing slightly better because you don't need her to put amuck up for him. The Scarsfel and Gnarlhorn can always have their defensive tech up without worrying about overloading fury. Sadly, I think this is going to really limit future animus for our living warbeasts. There goes my dreams of Rush in faction.😠Honestly I had heavy doubts we would ever get rush even without themes. Honestly though, rush in a faction that relies on a bad animus to kill heavies does not seem OP. Maybe we could actually trade half decent and out threat an enemy that's not trolls for once. I think the theme benefit is excellent but I highly doubt it will limit design space. Its one theme that only allows beasts and honestly I can't think of any animus in the game that would abuse this benefit right now.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Nov 21, 2017 20:36:56 GMT
The comparision is disheartening... Both are 21pt units, Both are POW 13, both threat 11"... Then everything changes and it's likely to go in favor of the IFP than the Ravagers... If nothing else it's 11 attacks vs 7.... On the flip side, if you get even one mini-feated ravager into a unit of IFP, it's a bad time for them. Different targets for different units and all that...that said, I also don't see battle lust as particularly OP, unless you subscribe to the 'circle units can never ever break armor ever' mentality.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 21, 2017 21:12:43 GMT
The comparision is disheartening... Both are 21pt units, Both are POW 13, both threat 11"... Then everything changes and it's likely to go in favor of the IFP than the Ravagers... If nothing else it's 11 attacks vs 7.... On the flip side, if you get even one mini-feated ravager into a unit of IFP, it's a bad time for them. Different targets for different units and all that...that said, I also don't see battle lust as particularly OP, unless you subscribe to the 'circle units can never ever break armor ever' mentality. Yeah battle lust is no more OP in circle than it is in any other faction. Wolves of orboros die like pansies and sure on feat turn with battle lust they would be gross but that's only 1 turn and they are only pow 9. Ravagers are pricey and only pow 13, so battle lust does not seem horrible. It just makes them better at cracking harder targets and high arm infantry. Our units are honestly so low powered when it comes to arm cracking I think we could get any spell like battle lust or Fury and still be in a relatively balanced place.
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Post by jisidro on Nov 22, 2017 10:28:16 GMT
They weren't the best armor crackers out there with POW 15, they won't be with POW 16 after buffing...
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 22, 2017 12:14:26 GMT
They weren't the best armor crackers out there with POW 15, they won't be with POW 16 after buffing... Pow 16's on infantry is solid. Especially considering ravagers primary target is other infantry. Dice off 4 is actually significant enough because you are more likeley to actually score damage on arm 20. It means all those arm 20-23 shieldwall shenanigans units will die to ravagers on a minifeat turn.
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Post by jisidro on Nov 22, 2017 12:24:33 GMT
They weren't the best armor crackers out there with POW 15, they won't be with POW 16 after buffing... Pow 16's on infantry is solid. Especially considering ravagers primary target is other infantry. Dice off 4 is actually significant enough because you are more likeley to actually score damage on arm 20. It means all those arm 20-23 shieldwall shenanigans units will die to ravagers on a minifeat turn.
Ofc it is, it's just not something that stands out when confronted by other hard hitting troops. Meaning it's fine.
Just think of Exemplars Knights with Battle Driven and the UA...
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 22, 2017 12:51:31 GMT
Pow 16's on infantry is solid. Especially considering ravagers primary target is other infantry. Dice off 4 is actually significant enough because you are more likeley to actually score damage on arm 20. It means all those arm 20-23 shieldwall shenanigans units will die to ravagers on a minifeat turn.
Ofc it is, it's just not something that stands out when confronted by other hard hitting troops. Meaning it's fine.
Just think of Exemplars Knights with Battle Driven and the UA...
To be fair exemplar knights with the UA outshine almost every single melee option in protectorate. And that's not exactly a faction who lacks options.
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