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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 30, 2017 21:48:16 GMT
I have a friend (who also has a teenager) who is considering getting into Warhammer or Warmachine with his son. I’ve never played Warhammer. He asked me to compare the two systems. Can folks offer some useful insights I can share with my friend?
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 30, 2017 21:50:15 GMT
Warhammer is more expensive, from what I've heard.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 30, 2017 21:54:52 GMT
Warmachine has rules, Warhammer lacks them The effort you put into a game of warmachine relates to how well you do. In Warhammer this does not happen.
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Oct 30, 2017 22:19:36 GMT
Given that this is a warmachine forum, it might be hard to get an unbiased answer! I haven’t played warhammer for a couple of years, but generally, warhammer and 40k have a slightly more relaxed ruleset, while warmachine is very precise. In warhammer, you often have massed units of grunts who die in droves, where in warmachine, every single model can be crucial. Games of warhammer often have a better sense of narrative, while warmachine offers more of a mental puzzle.
Of course, these are generalisations, and the opposite can be true- there are no shortage of very competitive warhammer players, and I’m sure plenty of warmachine players just get a kick out of big robots smashing each other in the face. But generally, if you’re after a deeply strategic experience, maybe try warmachine. If you want to tell a story and have a more laid back game, warhammer might be for you.
On the price front, games workshop’s pricing seems better than it was a few years ago. I’d guess that an average warhammer model is cheaper than an average warmachine model. Plus, warhammer seems to scale well, so if price is a factor, you can just play smaller games. Warmachine is ideally played at 75 points, so the price point is more set.
Hope this was helpful!
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Oct 30, 2017 22:39:07 GMT
Warmachine has better rules and strategic depth. Warhammer has better models and is better if you just wanna throw dice around with little thought about strategy.
Compared to shooters Warmachine is CS GO, Warhammer is Call of Duty
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Post by welshhoppo on Oct 30, 2017 23:13:10 GMT
Are we taking warhammer warhammer or warhammer 40k or Age of Sigmar.
Because the answer varies drastically for all 3.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 30, 2017 23:55:03 GMT
Well, I still play 40k on the side every so often as well as AoS during its first 6months, so let me way in.
The model count is higher usually so a lot of stuff tends to die. This has the effect that you have slightly more leeway in bad decisions as long as you have enough redundancy in your list. Similar to checkers, the pieces are more equal and similar, generally speaking, as opposed to chess with the different types.
Missions are also very different depending on what system you're using. Maelstrom missions, as they were called last edition, play more like SR in which their is constant scoring and the need to pressure your opponent. Alternatively, Eternal War missions are more static and are more suited for attrition and take-and-hold gameplay.
P.S. I like Deller's analogy to CSGO(or R6S) and CoD. As long as you ignore the superficial CoD hate, it's a very appropriate comparison.
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Post by mydnight on Oct 31, 2017 1:45:27 GMT
Age of Sigmar is more relaxed, has nicer models. You can play epic hero hammer or go with a massive infantry hammer so it';s also more flexible (because hey if it's not balanced then it doesn't matter what level you play it at). But they have been very slow and inconsistent in updating the various factions (as always).
Warmachine has better updates, but that may change as bloat goes to uncontrollable levels. Currently with the theme force format, you are likely to see a new theme force for your faction once every 2 years. Warmachine is also better with strangers, as you spend less time arguing about rules.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Oct 31, 2017 1:54:34 GMT
40k is more relaxed, easier to play, has a larger model range with higher quality and better customization options so you can make your collection unique.
By comparison, warmachine has tighter, more nuanced rules, a greater empahsis on competitive play, and better balance.
Cost wise the entry cost into warmachine is far lower and you can get more mileage out of a smaller collection. Warhammer often emphasizes having several duplicates while warmachine collections are often just fine with one of everything.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 31, 2017 1:57:07 GMT
Why would you dooo dis. Why! I'm going to be watching this thread very closely.
Anyway, my best explanation for 40k is the game I play when I'm tired of dealing with the average warmachine player. You should get what I mean.
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Post by mydnight on Oct 31, 2017 1:59:18 GMT
Why would you dooo dis. Why! I'm going to be watching this thread very closely. Anyway, my best explanation for 40k is the game I play when I'm tired of dealing with the average warmachine player. You should get what I mean. You should try the average Magic player.
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Tunafish
Baby's First Wargame
Figuring out how a paint brush works
Posts: 5
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Post by Tunafish on Oct 31, 2017 2:11:01 GMT
While everyone here is stating the 40k has little depth is flat out lying. 40k has a lot of strategic depth, however it suffered from major rule bloat from it's previous edition (7th) thus the newest edition (8th) was streamlined. The real deal breaker is that you'll most liking find nearly 50x as many 40k or AoS players then you would find Warmachine/Hordes players. It also costs 50x times as much to start an actual army, but you'll never find a place without a 40k scene. Each to their own.
40k is also VERY fluff and narrative heavy, to the point where other 40k players will call you out on bringing competitive lists to friendly games, or lists that are "anti-fluffy" to the 40k lore. 40k lore, however, is very fluid as you could easily make your own space marine chapter, or Ork warband and put them into the larger 40k fluff without anyone batting an eye. 40k is very oriented to "your dudes" (aka your own personal army fluff) which is very nice for those not looking to use one of the pre-established fluff subfactions and groups.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Oct 31, 2017 2:18:36 GMT
I'd suggest Warmachine simply because $40 each for the battleboxes gets them started and if they decide that miniature gaming is not for them the $$$ investment is not significant. Let them pick battleboxes based on a short discussion of the faction and what looks cool - don't go into details. If they do get into the game the themes will help guide them on their purchases for first army.
On a parent / child bonding note - the parent will be able to have more in-depth discussions with the child after the game as they discuss tactics and what they could have done differently - something that can be done with Warhammer, but it will probably be a shorter, more shallow discussion and boils down to "that was fun."
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 31, 2017 2:45:27 GMT
Why would you dooo dis. Why! I'm going to be watching this thread very closely. Anyway, my best explanation for 40k is the game I play when I'm tired of dealing with the average warmachine player. You should get what I mean. You should try the average Magic player. DECKBUILDERS CAN DIE IN A FIRE.
Mini/deckbuilder combos are find though.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Oct 31, 2017 5:22:45 GMT
When I started Warmachine from Warhammer 40k, I was told "GW created rules so that they could help sell their primary product: models. PP created models so that they could help sell their primary product: rules." After a year of GW, I started Warmachine and never looked back.
GW uses "True Line of Sight" as well as rules poorly defined like "if more than 25% of a model is obscured..." (which to be fair, may have been 7th ed and not 8th). Nonetheless, every game was steeped in arguments over things like this.
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