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Post by Blargaliscious on Oct 21, 2017 0:21:06 GMT
Thanks for all the great responses on here, after reading everything it does seem like he is simply holding an advantage in these low points games. The behemoth doesnt sit there the whole time shooting, it just always waits till turn 3 or 4 to run in and wreck my brick. I was using xekaar because that is all In had, but now I switched to zaadesh2. My current list is this: 25pt Imperial Warhost Theme Force Zaadesh2 (+28) Bronzeback (-18) Gladiator (-15) Sentry (-15) Min Beast Handlers (-5) Agonizer (free) Total: 53pts He is a good player and I know he goes a little easy on us and things are always still fun. At this point its become a bit of a store challenge to be the person that finds a way to take it out. I feel like once each of us expands our collection to include some specific models it won't be as bad. Once we have the experience and know how to handle it, it will probably be a lot easier to deal with. At which point he'll stop bringing it in favor of something new! And he has been beaten once or twice, even when using the behemoth. Our legion player has gotten good at minimizing the most of behemoths damage and going straight for the assassination. But no one has yet been able to take out the big B himself. In my opinion you have an excellent battlegroup, and it was an exceptionally good idea to switch from Xekaar to Zaadesh2. You haven't really told us much how you operate your battle group, but you using the word "brick" makes me think that you operate it in a clump. If you do, this is understandable, but I would recommend against it. Instead, think along the lines "Pinball Wizard." The Gladiator should be slamming warjacks into each other (to get the +D6 damage and knockdowns) and the Bronzeback should be Grab and Smashing warjacks into each other. The game should resemble an episode of "World Wrestling Entertainment Presents: Australian Rules Barfight." Have Zaadesh put Inviolable Resolve on the Sentry and put him out front. With ARM 19 + 2 for the shield + 2 for the spell = ARM 23 you dangle him out there as a target. The Sentry casts his animus (Retaliatory Strike) and his new name is "Bait." Zaadesh then casts Battle Charged and throws out a Burning Ash cloud to make sure the opposing guy only really wants to charge the Sentry. Put the Agonizer 4-5" behind the Sentry with the Gnawing Pain agony going and have the Gladiator and the Bronzeback 4" back and 4" to either side of the Sentry to counter-charge the warjack that charged it. The only exception to this is if the Behemoth charges the Sentry - if this happens write off the Sentry as a loss and then have the Bronzeback (and Gladiator?) take indiscretions with the Behemoth on your turn. You don't want counter-charges because that is only one attack each, and then you have clumped your beasts to be beaten to death by the Behemoth. If you charge on your turn you maximize the number of attacks and can keep the Behemoth knocked down. Really, just try to maximize your use of all of the rules that are on the backs of all of the cards, and try to have your beasts try to work together - not as a roving pack of thugs but more like a "Ballet of the Bulls." I hope this helps. |
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Post by tasadarthemadbear on Oct 21, 2017 0:31:03 GMT
That is basically what I have been doing and I've had good results so far. He almost never plays aggressively with the behemoth though; he always waits out the first several turns at range with it. It does mean I tend to maul the rest of his army pretty good, but it allows him to decided when to bring in the really heavy hitter and of course that's always when it can do the most damage to me. I think it's because I don't have the speed to ignore the behemoth, but I also don't have any range to threaten it. I plan on using a Krea instead of an agonizer next time to stop the shooting and force him to move in to melee. Hopefully I'll be able to win that match up without the agonizer.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Oct 21, 2017 2:54:16 GMT
That is basically what I have been doing and I've had good results so far. He almost never plays aggressively with the behemoth though; he always waits out the first several turns at range with it. It does mean I tend to maul the rest of his army pretty good, but it allows him to decided when to bring in the really heavy hitter and of course that's always when it can do the most damage to me. I think it's because I don't have the speed to ignore the behemoth, but I also don't have any range to threaten it. I plan on using a Krea instead of an agonizer next time to stop the shooting and force him to move in to melee. Hopefully I'll be able to win that match up without the agonizer. Well, then, it sounds like you know what you're doing, why are you bugging us? "Oh, help me Khador players, I don't know what to do against that bad 'ol Behemoth!" Yes you do, shut up and go away.  In all seriousness, if he's waiting you out so that he can get the jump on a clump of your titans then deny him that and be patient. After you thrash the rest of his army set up what what I described above (to the best with what's left) and just advance it up on the Butcher and the Behemoth. Either he takes the bait, after which you trash the Behemoth, or you get to the point where you can charge the Butcher and win on caster kill. He may be one of those players that just waits for you to make a mistake and then jumps on that mistake to win the game. If you know that's how they work then you have to play differently - carefully and methodically. Good luck. |
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Post by gobber on Oct 21, 2017 3:23:05 GMT
Since you've mentioned difficulty with multiple rounds of shooting/slow speed up the board and it hasn't been mentioned yet, are you using your hyper-aggressive moves? It's one of those abilities I always forget. Be careful not to get yourself killed by wandering into behemoth's melee threat before it activates (once it starts making ranged atks you're safe) unless you're intentionally baiting with the sentry. Behemoth can't shoot anything near the sentry without giving the sentry the opportunity to move via shield guarding a shot. A sentry rocketing 8" forward with countercharge, defensive strike, and potentially retaliatory strike up as well you can really cause headaches for your opponent. Assuming big b doesn't target the sentry, if you wait til its second shot to shield guard you can reliably scoot two beasts 4" forward.
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Post by borderprince on Oct 21, 2017 4:17:23 GMT
I think it's because I don't have the speed to ignore the behemoth, but I also don't have any range to threaten it. Worth remembering that the Sentry does out-threat Behemoth in melee due to 2" reach on its primary weapon. Wiht Zaadesh2's feat + Enrage, it's on straight dice vs Behemoth. Average rolls are likely to cause some serious damage to Behemoth, but won't take it down in one turn. And note Blargalicious' point about pressuring Behemoth or Butcher. If you can get the game to that point, you're doing well. Both those models are powerful, but no one wants to save Behemoth at the expense of their caster. |
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Post by Blargaliscious on Oct 21, 2017 17:13:38 GMT
While I have been focusing on battle group composition and tactics, gobber and borderprince have been kind enough to focus on the speed-related aspects of being able to get the charge on the Behemoth and/or Butcher. There is one little tidbit that I would like to add onto their discussion: The Titan Gladiator has the Rush animus. Rush gives +2" of movement to Normal Movement (not just a charge) and Pathfinder. It has a 6" range, so the Gladiator or Zaadesh can cast it onto any of the beasts, and it only costs 2 fury to cast. On feat turn you can pre-position the Agonizer, Zaadesh can pass Rush out like candy to the big three beasts, pop his feat, and then munch popcorn while the carnage ensues. |
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Post by tasadarthemadbear on Oct 24, 2017 0:32:08 GMT
Thanks for all the advice, i was forgetting about Hyper-Aggression. I was finally able to beat him and big B this past weekend. It was mainly all about playing more patient and carefully and remebering to use all my rules to extend my threat range with the Sentry.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 24, 2017 6:02:23 GMT
Congrats!
No, wait, I mean: curse you, Skorne! The Motherland shall have her revenge!
I'm so confused right now.
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