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Post by jisidro on Oct 19, 2017 8:36:26 GMT
Spells can't have their cost around the warlock it is in... We all know signature spells get passed around.
Just like Krueger2 doesn't cast windstorm (is this the new name?) every single turn perhaps Madrak needs to choose when he needs it.
Take Haley3 for exemple: How is the DEF spell cost 2? I imagine the math was she spends 4 to keep the echoes, +2 for the spell and now has only 2 herself to play around... Result? Haley3. Not the best logic.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 19, 2017 9:32:01 GMT
Where is my damn Moment of Clarity!
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 19, 2017 12:12:47 GMT
oncomingstormYeah I agree Barny 2 is little over the top. Steady was kind of one of those last straw things for me. You know some people on there wanted to give him divinity? For "quality of life and thematic purposes" *sigh* good old CiD....And if we are being honest, most of the people that had him et assassinated were throwing him balls out at the enemies army. A caster should never be able to just plop mid table in front of everything and laugh at an assassination attempt. But oh well. The stone scribe is only 12" if you fill it up. But that is entirely possible to accomplish by turn 2 or 3 if you fill it up on turn 1. I think my point is less "blood boon is bad" as much as I feel madrack 1 is relegated to very boring activations very turn. If your opponent does not have any infantry in range, you are just relegated to popping even ground. it is very unsafe to play him forward with no transfers and while the talisman is a great psuedo transfer you really should have a transfer or 2 in the bank which means he is basically only casting blood boon every turn. Also it is very important to remember, when using blood boon to cats even ground, there is a chance of failure. madrack still needs an 8 to hit a def 14 trooper, which mathematically may not seem like an issue, but becomes and issue when you are relying on it to trigger his iconic and caster defining spell. If that toss fails to hit, you are kind of stuck with wasting a large portion of madracks fury and being left with no transfers. Like I said I don't think blood boon on him is bad, but a fury 3 spell on a fury 5 caster (even with access to a rune bearer) really limits his turn by turn options. Havign said that, I love playing casters with lots of options. Krueger, Mohsar, Wurmwood, tanith. All of which can do very different things each turn in the same game. So I am a little biased on that front. I would like to re-iterate that I think Madrack 1 is really good. Def 16 trolls (particularly champions in the Storm of the North) hit like a ton of bricks. And that is not even considering how hilarious a mud wrestling list would be to play.
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Post by catulle on Oct 19, 2017 12:45:08 GMT
Just like Krueger2 doesn't cast windstorm (is this the new name?) Yep, they changed it from Storm Wall because it was just too confusing for him to have tech sharing a name with the Cygnar colossal. (Note, dear readers, that his Feat remains called "Hurricane"...)
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 19, 2017 12:45:12 GMT
Barny 2 really flippin good. Def 15 with Steady under Star Crossed is nightmare of a defensive stat, sprinkle in Swarm or Spiny Growth (that now costs 1) and there is not much that can touch him. Plus his melee output is insane, his spell list is fantastic and his feat is absolutely solid for his toolkit.
He does not do much to dispel the myth that CID just makes everything OTT
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 19, 2017 12:50:10 GMT
Barny 2 really flippin good. Def 15 with Steady under Star Crossed is nightmare of a defensive stat, sprinkle in Swarm or Spiny Growth (that now costs 1) and there is not much that can touch him. Plus his melee output is insane, his spell list is fantastic and his feat is absolutely solid for his toolkit. He does not do much to dispel the myth that CID just makes everything OTT meanwhile circle cannot even get the woldwatcher to do anything super relevant in cid Faction bias from PPS_Strawman confirmed?!?! I will never understand why he gained steady. At least they didn't give him divinity like some people asked for....*sigh* Hopefully you won't ever need to assassinate him...
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Post by smoothcriminal on Oct 19, 2017 12:54:51 GMT
Madrak has a strong signature spell. It's definitely stronger than H3's so it should cost more. He has a built-in way to cast it for free. What more do you ask? Sure, would be nice to have more things on his card, but that's apparently not allowed unless you're a Grymkin caster.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 19, 2017 13:03:04 GMT
Madrak has a strong signature spell. It's definitely stronger than H3's so it should cost more. He has a built-in way to cast it for free. What more do you ask? Sure, would be nice to have more things on his card, but that's apparently not allowed unless you're a Grymkin caster. Don't think we should be comparing it to haley3. 1: Haley 3 has a significantly better ability to spread her army out and it is not that hard to fit models within 5 of herself and the projections 2: Haley 3 has 3 extra focus AND a squire making her a very interesting (if super powerful) caster turn by turn 3: Distortion is cheaper and in exchange fro no KD it provides a def debuff which makes it functionally different than just a brick buff. It is not "worse" it is just different... 4: projections effectively give haley and extar 8 focus meaning she has about 16 focus to use per activation firther distiancing her resource management from madrack. 5: Cygnar has notably higher def than trolls especially in the trencher theme. Haley is a completely different animal than madrack. In fact if you compare the two madrack almost seems LACKING in abilities.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 19, 2017 13:42:55 GMT
Just like Krueger2 doesn't cast windstorm (is this the new name?) Yep, they changed it from Storm Wall because it was just too confusing for him to have tech sharing a name with the Cygnar colossal. (Note, dear readers, that his Feat remains called "Hurricane"...) Legion Blightbringer warbeast Saeryn 1 Blight bringer spell. Hellmouth unit Hellmouth spell PP cares naught about name overlap
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Oct 19, 2017 13:48:00 GMT
Yep, they changed it from Storm Wall because it was just too confusing for him to have tech sharing a name with the Cygnar colossal. (Note, dear readers, that his Feat remains called "Hurricane"...) Legion Blightbringer warbeast Saeryn 1 Blight bringer spell. Hellmouth unit Hellmouth spell PP cares naught about name overlap Circle: Stalker heavy warbeast Cryx: Stalker light warjack Khador: Great axe = just about any stats you can think of, as long as it doesn't match any other instance of great axe in the faction
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Post by smoothcriminal on Oct 19, 2017 13:50:28 GMT
Madrak has a strong signature spell. It's definitely stronger than H3's so it should cost more. He has a built-in way to cast it for free. What more do you ask? Sure, would be nice to have more things on his card, but that's apparently not allowed unless you're a Grymkin caster. Don't think we should be comparing it to haley3. 1: Haley 3 has a significantly better ability to spread her army out and it is not that hard to fit models within 5 of herself and the projections 2: Haley 3 has 3 extra focus AND a squire making her a very interesting (if super powerful) caster turn by turn 3: Distortion is cheaper and in exchange fro no KD it provides a def debuff which makes it functionally different than just a brick buff. It is not "worse" it is just different... 4: projections effectively give haley and extar 8 focus meaning she has about 16 focus to use per activation firther distiancing her resource management from madrack. 5: Cygnar has notably higher def than trolls especially in the trencher theme. Haley is a completely different animal than madrack. In fact if you compare the two madrack almost seems LACKING in abilities. Spell itself is stronger is all I'm saying. H3 would be better with this spell for example. No knockdown is a very big deal for both def skew and tough skew and for jamming capabilities. Trencher spam would be incredibly annoying with this spell. It's definitely worth 3. Otherwise trolls are notorious for having lower fury and no easy arcnodes in exchange for higher defensive stats. Which in my opinion is a very bad exchange for them. There's a reason trolls are at competitive bottom.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 19, 2017 14:22:13 GMT
oncomingstormYeah I agree Barny 2 is little over the top. Steady was kind of one of those last straw things for me. You know some people on there wanted to give him divinity? For "quality of life and thematic purposes" *sigh* good old CiD....And if we are being honest, most of the people that had him et assassinated were throwing him balls out at the enemies army. A caster should never be able to just plop mid table in front of everything and laugh at an assassination attempt. But oh well. Yep. I also saw the 'make execration -2 attack and dmg to everything,' the 'wrastler needs to be mat 7 and have pathfinder,' and the ' swamp horror needs +1 strength, a cheaper animus, +1 arm, and a point reduction' suggestions. Some people are either idiots with no concept of balance, or are deliberately pitching op crap to pp.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 19, 2017 14:38:26 GMT
smoothcriminalBut is it? In a faction of mostly Def13+ infantry with higher levels of obtainable defense skew. It covers a very wide area. I don't think you can just say that even ground is better.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 19, 2017 15:11:52 GMT
oncomingstorm Yeah I agree Barny 2 is little over the top. Steady was kind of one of those last straw things for me. You know some people on there wanted to give him divinity? For "quality of life and thematic purposes" *sigh* good old CiD....And if we are being honest, most of the people that had him et assassinated were throwing him balls out at the enemies army. A caster should never be able to just plop mid table in front of everything and laugh at an assassination attempt. But oh well. Yep. I also saw the 'make execration -2 attack and dmg to everything,' the 'wrastler needs to be mat 7 and have pathfinder,' and the ' swamp horror needs +1 strength, a cheaper animus, +1 arm, and a point reduction' suggestions. Some people are either idiots with no concept of balance, or are deliberately pitching op crap to pp.
I feel kinda of alone in CID as the guys who always stomps on requests... help me out
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Oct 19, 2017 15:19:42 GMT
Even Ground should be 3 fury. If Madrak1 isn't powerful enough, it isn't because his best spell costs 0-3 fury each turn.
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