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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 20, 2017 20:43:25 GMT
Thanks for all the input guys. I'm curious that most people's reaction seems to be: Call of the Wild = light spam. While I can certainly see that Call of the Wild is good for a list that's light spam already, it's not the only way to play it. I was actually thinking more of a Warpwolf list, myself. (Mind you, with high DEF and lower ARM, our Warpwolves act a lot like lights sometimes, at least when it comes to durability. So I guess many of the same counters apply: continuous fire, CRAs...) There's a reason Jaws of the Wolf isn't played with 4 Spriggans and Behemoth (and it's not just that spriggans are overcosted at the moment.) Low model count armies are very vulnerable to jamming, and VERY vulnerable to anything that can out-alpha them, because each piece lost is a sizeable chunk of the army's hitting power. Trading a marauder or two to set up a counter-alpha the next turn is an acceptable loss, trading two warpwolves for the same is not...and especially with Circle, there's no way to guarantee the alpha every time - not in a game where cloudwalls, gunlines, Ret Halberdiers with a 16" threat range, and other means of skewing threat range exist.
Add to that the fact that Warpwolves are probably overcosted by a good two points apiece, that Satyrs are not very good pieces in general (excepting the shadowhorn) and there's not really a great reason to run a bunch of warpwolves outside of some very specific builds (I like Baldur2 with Wrong Eye and Snapjaw + Wolves, personally.)
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 21, 2017 4:28:28 GMT
Thanks for all the input guys. I'm curious that most people's reaction seems to be: Call of the Wild = light spam. While I can certainly see that Call of the Wild is good for a list that's light spam already, it's not the only way to play it. I was actually thinking more of a Warpwolf list, myself. (Mind you, with high DEF and lower ARM, our Warpwolves act a lot like lights sometimes, at least when it comes to durability. So I guess many of the same counters apply: continuous fire, CRAs...) There's a reason Jaws of the Wolf isn't played with 4 Spriggans and Behemoth (and it's not just that spriggans are overcosted at the moment.) Low model count armies are very vulnerable to jamming, and VERY vulnerable to anything that can out-alpha them, because each piece lost is a sizeable chunk of the army's hitting power. Trading a marauder or two to set up a counter-alpha the next turn is an acceptable loss, trading two warpwolves for the same is not...and especially with Circle, there's no way to guarantee the alpha every time - not in a game where cloudwalls, gunlines, Ret Halberdiers with a 16" threat range, and other means of skewing threat range exist.
Add to that the fact that Warpwolves are probably overcosted by a good two points apiece, that Satyrs are not very good pieces in general (excepting the shadowhorn) and there's not really a great reason to run a bunch of warpwolves outside of some very specific builds (I like Baldur2 with Wrong Eye and Snapjaw + Wolves, personally.) This is the reason why the only warlock I can see works with call of the wild is kromac1
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 21, 2017 4:51:19 GMT
@lord_randall dude...Una a kaya3 run it pretty well...Kaya 3 particularly may run it best of all the locks...
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 21, 2017 4:55:29 GMT
There's a reason Jaws of the Wolf isn't played with 4 Spriggans and Behemoth (and it's not just that spriggans are overcosted at the moment.) Low model count armies are very vulnerable to jamming, and VERY vulnerable to anything that can out-alpha them, because each piece lost is a sizeable chunk of the army's hitting power. Trading a marauder or two to set up a counter-alpha the next turn is an acceptable loss, trading two warpwolves for the same is not...and especially with Circle, there's no way to guarantee the alpha every time - not in a game where cloudwalls, gunlines, Ret Halberdiers with a 16" threat range, and other means of skewing threat range exist.
Add to that the fact that Warpwolves are probably overcosted by a good two points apiece, that Satyrs are not very good pieces in general (excepting the shadowhorn) and there's not really a great reason to run a bunch of warpwolves outside of some very specific builds (I like Baldur2 with Wrong Eye and Snapjaw + Wolves, personally.) This is the reason why the only warlock I can see works with call of the wild is kromac1 Una2, Kaya2/3 and Baldur2 can all do fine in CoTW. Kromac1 is actually better in Bones, IMO.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 21, 2017 5:05:24 GMT
You can find a way to handle a split scenario against a infantry heavy force with those ctrl12 locks or a way to keep kaya3 alive when you commit? How you can play a melee force with a static 10-11 treath?
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 21, 2017 6:25:36 GMT
You can find a way to handle a split scenario against a infantry heavy force with those ctrl12 locks or a way to keep kaya3 alive when you commit? How you can play a melee force with a static 10-11 treath? It's not a list you drop into an infantry swarm, or most gunlines (except the few that are weak to stealth or LOS) it's a list you use to handle armor skew. And it does a damn good job of that. 10-11 inch threat becomes 13 inch threat with a blackclad, with Tracker...it's non negligible. Add in dodging, Def 17 Griffons with Kaya3, and it's more resilient than you'd think.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 21, 2017 6:29:23 GMT
What match you think to drop kaya3?
How many game you played with?
What's your paring?
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 21, 2017 12:53:02 GMT
What match you think to drop kaya3? How many game you played with? What's your paring? You play Kaya 3 onto Arm slew and jack/Beast Spam orba combined arms force. She is also pretty decent into certain gunlines with the stealth and high Def. Most of this is theory mongering. I could ask you the same question...I have played call with Big Mac in wolf pack. With thempocalypse it’s hard to determine a pairing. I would pair with Wurmwood, anyone in the Tharn Theme as an Infantry List that murders infantry. Bones of orboros for attrition and dude spam counter.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 21, 2017 13:44:21 GMT
I'm at 5 game with kromac1 CoW: -absy2 oracle -helynna legion of dawn -reznik2 faithfull masses -dreamer dark managery -madrak with dudes theme
Next probably will be lucant clockwork legion...
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 21, 2017 17:40:21 GMT
I'm at 5 game with kromac1 CoW: -absy2 oracle -helynna legion of dawn -reznik2 faithfull masses -dreamer dark managery -madrak with dudes theme Next probably will be lucant clockwork legion... I mean cool? Have you played it with Kaya 3 yet? I don’t doubt it’s good under Kromac 1 but to say he is the only one that runs it well is pretty extreme. He is pretty good though, have been playing him and Wild hunt and having a blast.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 21, 2017 17:55:19 GMT
What I mean is: I'm having difficult time with scenario with a 14" control... a 12"control warlock need to play very central and upfield. Isn't appealing at all... expecially if the turn you commit you can't realistically camp more then 2. Defence isn't a good protective meccanic in a field full of knockdown effect or easy achievable boost or silly mat buffs.
But If you found a list that works good... I'll be happy to see some reports, because I'm crushing my head to the wall tryng to find a reasonable Kaya 3 build.
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Post by rezfon on Oct 21, 2017 19:38:20 GMT
I've played 6 games with kaya 3 under CotW. Won half of them and one of the games I lost was for being far too greedy.
Previously ran 2 stalkers, but planning on dropping one, a shifting stone unit and druid wilder to take brigands + ua and a second Wayfarer. Just need to wait until those brigands actually get back in stock.
So prospective list looks like:
Kaya the Wildheart - Warpwolf Stalker - Pureblood Warpwolf - Scarsfell Griffon - Scarsfell Griffon - Scarsfell Griffon - Scarsfell Griffon - Scarsfell Griffon - Gorax Rager Blackclad Wayfarer Blackclad Wayfarer Shifting Stones Farrow Brigands - Farrow Brigand Warlord
The stars of the show have been the scarsfell, they've killed far more than their points cost. Had one of them leave azreal on 4 boxes left after 1 charge.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 21, 2017 23:56:48 GMT
What I mean is: I'm having difficult time with scenario with a 14" control... a 12"control warlock need to play very central and upfield. Isn't appealing at all... expecially if the turn you commit you can't realistically camp more then 2. Defence isn't a good protective meccanic in a field full of knockdown effect or easy achievable boost or silly mat buffs. But If you found a list that works good... I'll be happy to see some reports, because I'm crushing my head to the wall tryng to find a reasonable Kaya 3 build. I gues I am just very used to working with a 12” Control. I make it work with both baldurs, Tanith, and some of my protectorate casters. With all the new terrain in SR2017 it’s not even that hard to keep them safe. (Well with some exception match ups) But I do understand the extra control range. It does make a difference in the way the army feels.
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Post by Fudly on Oct 22, 2017 2:26:01 GMT
How do you make it work?
Like, I'd like to play a Baldur1 call list, but since I can't afford Brigands right now, I have trouble seeing how he doesn't just lose on scenario. Do you always run brigands/hunters? Do you put him in the very middle and try to play both zones without infantry, hoping your opponent doesn't move his army near the corners? Do you commit everything to one zone, hoping to clear it before you lose on scenario?
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 22, 2017 4:09:30 GMT
How do you make it work? Like, I'd like to play a Baldur1 call list, but since I can't afford Brigands right now, I have trouble seeing how he doesn't just lose on scenario. Do you always run brigands/hunters? Do you put him in the very middle and try to play both zones without infantry, hoping your opponent doesn't move his army near the corners? Do you commit everything to one zone, hoping to clear it before you lose on scenario? I was just talking about playing 12” Control in general. Not just in call. But yes, you either skew to one side of the table and put something like a gremlin swarm in the opposite zone at the back edge to contest or you plop centerfield and try to grind. That’s really all you can do. It’s not easy but it’s also very maneageable in SR2017 With Baldur 2 particularly you can park midfield and dot behind heavies or the wall and be pretty safe.
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