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Post by Dev Null on Oct 18, 2017 18:13:35 GMT
In the thread about Kaya3 CotW counters, I noticed that almost everything that came out about specific casters / themes / factions was Warmachine, not Hordes. I thought I wouldn't derail that thread, which is about a specific Kaya3 list, but I'm curious what people see as the biggest _Hordes_ threats to a beast-heavy list like Call of the Wild? (I want to try some hard matchups, but for various reasons have mostly Hordes available for opponents...)
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Post by Fudly on Oct 18, 2017 21:01:41 GMT
Griffins die to anything with accurate attacks. Boosting is usually enough, but mat/rat buffs are better. If they're also out-threatened, they'll die before doing anything. I also don't think call lists are great at killing infantry (except kromac1's stalkers), but at least, infantry usually can't boost.
Skorne Makeda1 Makeda 2 Cats in general are probably bad for us. Zaadesh2 zaal1 xerxis2 rasheth1
Legion Kallus1 Lylyth1 Lylyth3 Thagrosh2
Trolls Madrak1 Doomshaper2
Grymkin Dreamer
Minions Barnabus1
(this is an incomplete list of matchups that look hard)
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Post by rezfon on Oct 20, 2017 9:01:28 GMT
Anything that can put continuous fire on our lights, especially blasts with that effect. So skorne are the big one that comes to mind.
Also anything with combined range attacks or melee. A budgie can be def 17 all it likes, but an 11 man CRA will instantly put one down.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 20, 2017 12:29:40 GMT
Anything that can put continuous fire on our lights, especially blasts with that effect. So skorne are the big one that comes to mind. Also anything with combined range attacks or melee. A budgie can be def 17 all it likes, but an 11 man CRA will instantly put one down. why are we calling scarsfells budgies.....why is that a thing? also, if a full unit is CRA'ing a budgie and can somehow ignore stealth I think that is a win. Continuous fire does suck. It sucks for most of our faction honestly.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Oct 20, 2017 13:16:24 GMT
I'm not sure about Skorne lighting your Birds on fire, considering how popular Incindiarii are. Cats vs Birds+Dogs is a pretty interesting matchup. I played it with Zaadesh2 which probably was a mistake; Makeda2 probably plays it better. But you have a lot of tech that cats don't like. The Argus' paralization animus is really annoying. It helps massively with killing cats and stopping them from jumping.
Now Funline, that's going to be pretty brutal for the petting zoo. (List nicknames YAY!)
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Post by jisidro on Oct 20, 2017 13:19:25 GMT
I'm not sure about Skorne lighting your Birds on fire, considering how popular Incindiarii are. Cats vs Birds+Dogs is a pretty interesting matchup. I played it with Zaadesh2 which probably was a mistake; Makeda2 probably plays it better. But you have a lot of tech that cats don't like. The Argus' paralization animus is really annoying. It helps massively with killing cats and stopping them from jumping. Now Funline, that's going to be pretty brutal for the petting zoo. (List nicknames YAY!)
Well, you threat 12" with charge + bark and they threat 17" walk+stuff.... how are they not getting the alpha?
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Oct 20, 2017 13:21:47 GMT
They are getting the alpha. You'll just have to deal with that. But I think you can. If they alpha your entire list with their entire list it's game over. In any other case there's a game.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 20, 2017 13:52:42 GMT
I haven't played it... Perhaps with a well positioned Gallows? Or bloodweavers?
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Post by The Snark Knight on Oct 20, 2017 14:04:42 GMT
why are we calling scarsfells budgies.....why is that a thing? Because Australia.
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Post by rezfon on Oct 20, 2017 14:38:56 GMT
Anything that can put continuous fire on our lights, especially blasts with that effect. So skorne are the big one that comes to mind. Also anything with combined range attacks or melee. A budgie can be def 17 all it likes, but an 11 man CRA will instantly put one down. also, if a full unit is CRA'ing a budgie and can somehow ignore stealth I think that is a win. Continuous fire does suck. It sucks for most of our faction honestly. The main cra unit I'd be worried about if i didn't have a minion unit like brigands would be Grymkin hollowmen. Cra and built in eyeless sight for 13pts, and ua granting recursion. For legion, I'd be most worried about kallus 2. Blazing path just shreds this army. For circle, I'd be most worried about our upcoming cid stuff. Wold wights will become a common pick. The new trollkin fire eaters look to be a right pain in the backside as they have assault shot and have sprays with continuous fire.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 20, 2017 15:30:05 GMT
I haven't played it... Perhaps with a well positioned Gallows? Or bloodweavers? Basically that is your best bet. I have experience playing into it with baldur 2. I hide the Gallows behind my line of heavies, absorb the alpha and then watch cats die. 5" range on entropic force is pretty good for catching some cats and honestly If you can kill half of them in one go you have probably won the game. Bloodweavers in the Tharn theme are also really good option to finish the cats off as they can come in after ravagers bring them down to a box and use gang and GW and killing spree to murder them all.
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Post by Dev Null on Oct 20, 2017 16:40:43 GMT
Thanks for all the input guys.
I'm curious that most people's reaction seems to be: Call of the Wild = light spam. While I can certainly see that Call of the Wild is good for a list that's light spam already, it's not the only way to play it. I was actually thinking more of a Warpwolf list, myself. (Mind you, with high DEF and lower ARM, our Warpwolves act a lot like lights sometimes, at least when it comes to durability. So I guess many of the same counters apply: continuous fire, CRAs...)
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 20, 2017 16:55:27 GMT
Thanks for all the input guys. I'm curious that most people's reaction seems to be: Call of the Wild = light spam. While I can certainly see that Call of the Wild is good for a list that's light spam already, it's not the only way to play it. I was actually thinking more of a Warpwolf list, myself. (Mind you, with high DEF and lower ARM, our Warpwolves act a lot like lights sometimes, at least when it comes to durability. So I guess many of the same counters apply: continuous fire, CRAs...) The issue I have had when running the wolfpack is you get jammed very easily and it is really hard to trade as there a quite a lot of lists out there that deliver heavies better than you can. I am working on a wolfpack list with kromac 2 but I also think Kaya 3 can run a wolfpack list very well particularly with purebloods and stalkers who both love fog of war and reposition 3" Here is my Big Mac List: Kromac 2: -Ghetorix -2Purebloods -2 Stalkers Gorax 2 Wayfarers 2 Shifting stones Gobber chef (for flags) Gobber bellows crew (to trigger prowl on stalkers and protect big mac) I have had issues with the bellows crew keeping up with the army however and am considering replacing them for a Stone keeper for one of my stone units to have a bigger spread and an extra model for scoring zones. It is really fun and on feta turn it hits like an absolute freight train but running all heavy warpwolves tends to cause issues with attrition and staying power.
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Post by fitnesspopa on Oct 20, 2017 19:45:58 GMT
How do you like this list? Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Call of the Wild
(Baldur 2) Baldur the Stonesoul [+30] - Gorax Rager [7] - Megalith [20] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Scarsfell Griffon [8] - Warpwolf Stalker [19] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Wrong Eye [17] Shifting Stones [0(3)]
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 20, 2017 20:30:56 GMT
How do you like this list? Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Call of the Wild (Baldur 2) Baldur the Stonesoul [+30] - Gorax Rager [7] - Megalith [20] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Scarsfell Griffon [8] - Warpwolf Stalker [19] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Wrong Eye [17] Shifting Stones [0(3)] Honestly I have never been sold on WE/SJ especially under a caster like baldur 2. They become a vulnrable part of your army and cannot benefit from roots of earth. Every game I have seen them in under baldur 2 they get removed somehow and then you are just 17 points out of luck. You could turn them into a Feral, get an extra free unit of stones take out the gorax, and have 6 points left over for a merc solo. Or you can take out the scarsfell and replace it with 2 Argi or a merc unit like ambushers as a screen. The feral under baldur 2 is really formidable at Def 14 and arm 21 no knockdown. And he provides some much needing hitting power to the list. Basically I would run this: Baldur: Megs 2 Purebloods Stalker Feal 2 Argi 2 stones 2 wayfarers. or Baldur2 Megs 2 Purebloods Stalker Feral 2 wayfarers stones Gobber Chef max Ambushers (they are 13 for a full unit in CiD)
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