Hjard
Junior Strategist
Posts: 123
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Post by Hjard on Mar 18, 2018 20:17:17 GMT
Bundeez have you tried Clockwork Legions with Aurora as a super jam list? Worked surprisingly well for me the hand full of times I played it. The most important factor is that your opponent probably won't expect it and can lose on scenario really fast, since you are standing all over his side of the table.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Mar 19, 2018 15:46:22 GMT
Yes I have actually. Most of the games I played against other armies with several units as well. I thought the recursion would win in the long rong, but that was never the case because the recursion is not very effective imo. You return to play just to die again, repeat. Some are able to remove from play as well (Troll Theme, Grymkin Dreamer Phantoms, Skorne Theme), or simply overload the Enigma Foundries by killing 4+ dudes in that area (for each EF ofc). I never played Spread the Net with the Aurora army, and the rest of the scenarios I couldn't win before time ran out, or 7 turns was over. CMD 7 on all units is really annoying. Not so much on they way in, but once you charge, have to field promote and so on, it causes a lot of problems. But the true weakness of the army is it hits way too softly. P+S 12 on all infantry is just not good enough to kill enemy heavies, battle engines, multiple wound units etc. Yes Aurora can allow boosts with the spell, but it was rarely possible since she has to cast flight every turn and upkeep 2 spells. Yes some units have combined attack, but that puts your output way too low and dependent on good charge damage rolls. And yes she had 1 or 2 heavies in her battlegroup, but with no support they threat only 8-9 inches and also hits for mediocre damage if they do not get picked off. Interesting that it worked for you though What did the list look like? I tried a mix of: Eradicators, Reciprocators, Obstructors, Reductors and angels. Something like tihs: Convergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Clockwork Legions (Aurora 1) Aurora, Numen of Aerogenesis [+29] - Cipher [16] - Corollary [6] - Diffuser [6] Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2] Enigma Foundry [0] Enigma Foundry [0] Enigma Foundry [0] Enigma Foundry [4] Clockwork Angels [5] Clockwork Angels [5] Clockwork Angels [5] Eradicators (max) [15] Eradicators (max) [15] Obstructors (max) [11] Reductors (max) [13]
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Post by jediguru on Mar 20, 2018 14:40:27 GMT
I plan on trying CL with Aurora also. I was planning on using Conservators as my BG as you will get +2 +2 pretty reliably. Hjard, what are you running with her?
I also plan on giving it a go with Lucant as positive charge and decel does a lot for the theme I would think.
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Hjard
Junior Strategist
Posts: 123
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Post by Hjard on Mar 21, 2018 9:54:49 GMT
Sorry gusy, took me a while to answer as I don't look into this forum as frequently when not at work. conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0Sd2dndndBd4dEdEdEdDdDdcdydqdqduConvergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Clockwork Legions (Aurora 1) Aurora, Numen of Aerogenesis [+29] - Conservator [12] - Conservator [12] - Corollary [6] - Diffuser [6] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Steelsoul Protector [4] Steelsoul Protector [4] Clockwork Angels [5] Obstructors (max) [11] Obstructors (max) [11] Reciprocators (max) [18] Eradicators (max) [15] There are two important factors to Aurora in Clockwork Legions A: Put in Reciprocators. B: Ignore the Clockwork Angels. The list is simply too pillow fisted without Reciprocators. Most of the time you won't need them to charge, but it's important to have the option. Clockwork Angels have always been a trap with Aurora. She does nothing they need and they do little for her, while being expensive so one unit is enough. Again: You need the option to grant flank and they bring the only magic weapons besides Aurora herself. So protecting them is important but usually easy as they can stay back behind everything else until needed. Against my own rule I skipped Optifex in this list to include another full unit. Nothing needs Pathfinder, Foundries can fix arms on a Conservator and there are enough magic weapons to handle an incorporeal solo. Playing the list against Cryx doesn't work anyway so why bother with the Wraith Engine. Including only 3 Foundries was a first try, but I found they are enough. Many opponents remove from play anyway so fielding 4 is more often a waste than not. A second Steelsoul on the other hand is another annoying solo to remove for your enemy that can punch them really hard or shield guards important stuff (not as much of a waste than Conservators hanging back). That's a theme anyway: The list includes more models that target it's specific weaknesses (hitting hard / actually surviving an attack) than pushing harder on it's strengths. The list will be good at it's strengths anyway. No reason to put in even more infantry clearing via second Eradicators / Reductors. First test for the list was Issyria with Shadows of the Retribution, so one of the worst matchups imaginable and at the same time something neither Axis nor Lucant handles particularly well. Steamrolled her on scenario. Yes, every Elf removes from play. But it turns out, they need to do damage first, which they somehow seem to struggle with, when you are already engaging everything. Hyperion was a problem, but simply jamming him worked well enough. He could either punch the Conservators, or try to shoot some of the units in melee with his own (and potentially blast his ARM 0 models). I've actually got a picture of that game somewhere because we found it ridiculous how hard I jammed him out of the zones. Let me look this up... imgur.com/a/vjE3JRed line was the furthest any of his models could get the entire game, which meant he could never contest any of my elements or score any of his. Sure, I lost almost all of my models and could never kill the Hyperion (got pretty beat up though), but throwing away the whole army yielded an easy scenario win, so who cares. He was also loosing on time really hard.
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Post by jediguru on Mar 21, 2018 19:57:46 GMT
Nice write up Hjard. This is what we need more of on these forums. People actually taking the time to explain what their list does, doesn't do, what it struggles with, how it plays, reasons for inclusions/exclusions in the list, etc. Well done.
Great points on the exclusion of more angels and leaving out the optifex.
Quick question on the game. Did you go first?
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Mar 21, 2018 20:35:31 GMT
What jediguru said Thanks for explaining more. I am very curious about jedigurus question if you went first or not. Do you think the game would have been the same at all if you did not go first? (I asume you went first ) I allways played with 4 EF's and didn't feel it was too many. Most of the time they were full on souls, or only creating a medium base dude, in which case it is worthwhile to have that many. Also good to contest, take flags etc, but I guess that is what you use the Steelsoul Protectors for as you describe. The angels you might be right about. I really love them because they are so self sufficien and can handle many tasks, but maybe they are too expensive. Forgot to mention that many of my games ended with an assassination attempt from my side, because it was last resort. At which point the angels are quite vital for it to pan out. We even debated if Aurora should be build single handedly to go for assassination, but came to the conclusion that it was not good enough (like it was in mk2). Did you play other games than that one Hjard ? I have lost several times on that scenario to dudespam (I played Destruction Initiative). Am not very fond of it, because you have to spread out that much. I am totally onboard that you don't have to kill your opponents whole army in order to win, but can jam and recurse as you did (especially against gargossels). I really like that tactic actually, that's partly why I bought into the faction (late mk2), when recursion was good. I just never got that crushing victory to let me believe the Theme has anything to offer :/
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faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
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Post by faelin on Mar 29, 2018 17:23:14 GMT
What does everyone think of Locke with all her changes? I see they worked around her feat a good deal and prevented her from taking CG Jacks.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Mar 29, 2018 17:36:33 GMT
I'm not liking them too much. I got excited about the Toro since it's better than most of our own dedicated melee heavies, but primarily to use as Jackhammer target (to avoid allocation). But whatever. The affect from every focus/fury spend is back, which is quite nice, but the +1 to Defense I couldn't care less about. By the time my Inverter is up to a mediocre DEF 13, it's probably dead anyway. As a defensive ARM feat it is really weak compared to Lucant, Stryker, Ragnor etc... Magic weapons is cute - free charges was way better. Neither Crusible Guard nor Convergence have heavies that can use the feat to great effect. Feat on a bunch of lights to hope for better trade ups? I don't know. Current Locke version confuses me... Do you have any thoughts/lists?
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Post by necromeat on Mar 30, 2018 17:07:18 GMT
I think Locke will be cool. I am excited to see if it changes my pairing. I am about to bring my Orion/Axis pairing with Syntherion for a masters event at the South Ontario Open next week.
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Post by riproarinboogerpenis on Mar 30, 2018 19:03:56 GMT
I'm hoping CoC gets a CID. If not soon, then just period. While things aren't horrible, they're definitely not as balanced as they used to be in MK2.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Mar 30, 2018 22:46:45 GMT
I think Locke will be cool. I am excited to see if it changes my pairing. I am about to bring my Orion/Axis pairing with Syntherion for a masters event at the South Ontario Open next week. Nice, can I see your Orion list?
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