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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 17, 2017 7:58:22 GMT
I must admit, I'm a bit irked that it's Cryx again. I don't even understand why Slaughter Fleet and Black Fleet need to be separate themes, but I'm no expert on the fluff. I'd rather they do Blighted Ogrun next, work on Legion's internal balance, and make sure that they're still competitive. I think they are, it's just that they were crutching on Oracles just as hard as we were on POD. Actually, if it were up to me, there would be no more CID this year. I'd focus on clearing the backlog of work, getting caught up on releases, Warmachine Weekend, and time off for the holidays. We can't even be sure who really needs attention right now because the meta is so volatile. So why not let everything simmer for a bit? See how WMW goes. I think they must just be doing it in the order of their release schedule, Black Fleet models are probably ready for release before Primal Terrors models, so it makes sense to do their CID first, even though Cryx don't need any help right now
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Post by far2casual on Oct 17, 2017 7:58:25 GMT
I think the Revenants can be fixed if you just make the leader to an officer. This makes counterplay possible and you now don't need a super specific counter anymore. That would make the unit unplayable trash. Pirates are 1.5 pt models (close to Banes) with the worst stats imaginable for that price tag. Making the officier trivially removable would only be ok if you cut their price tag in half. Deneghra would most likely be fine if they just made the feat D3+5 like they did with Haley2. In my opinion, that is not the way to go. Denny1 is not Haley2, she can't just feat some models 18" and completely shut them down. She needs to take risks to apply the feat, so she should be able to affect everything in it. The effect though, is over the top. Allowing charges, runs and special attacks is already a huge nerf, and greatly increases the risk for her in multiple matchups. Coven is a worse offender imo. The feat is just too oppressive. I think making the Feat -2 MAT and RAt and giving Stealth to the army would be ok, but might be too harsh. Good question. I would do it the other way around, remove the debuff part, and keep the anti-gunline part. At least if you can get to melee or get shots (via Ghost Shot for example), let them do their thing.
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Post by celeb on Oct 17, 2017 8:14:09 GMT
I think the Revenants can be fixed if you just make the leader to an officer. This makes counterplay possible and you now don't need a super specific counter anymore. That would make the unit unplayable trash. Pirates are 1.5 pt models (close to Banes) with the worst stats imaginable for that price tag. Making the officier trivially removable would only be ok if you cut their price tag in half. I agree I might have been too harsh. Still, I think that there needs to be something done. Maybe also give Sac-Pawn to the officer(would make it similar to the Necorsurgeon). Just give some possibilty for counterplay that is not a pure gear-check is what I want. She can shut models within 14" down completely, and additionally gain an offensive benfit. The risk is higher than haley, since she has to stand 4" farther forwar, but she has stealth to compensate. I think it is comparable. Stealth was my "anti-gunline" approach, but this might be a solution, too. In my games against coven, it was mostly their army scoring the points, so this wouldn't really change much.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 17, 2017 8:32:18 GMT
We know one of the new Cryx releases is going to have 'Throat Cutter' as a battle plan, which grants Back Stab to a unit. I am not sure if it is a Satyxis or Sharde Pirate model, but if it is Satyxis then that is just pants on head insane!
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Oct 17, 2017 9:24:39 GMT
Somewhere here I heard the idea of switching the feats of Agathia and Coven. And that sounds like a very elegant solution to two problems.
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Post by far2casual on Oct 17, 2017 9:27:49 GMT
I agree I might have been too harsh. Still, I think that there needs to be something done. Maybe also give Sac-Pawn to the officer(would make it similar to the Necorsurgeon). Just give some possibilty for counterplay that is not a pure gear-check is what I want. Yes, this is what is needed. A middle ground could be to give that new officer Rengrave's Call to Sacrifice. If you can kill Pirates 5" around the Officer (which is easy to do, Pirates die in droves), then he dies as well. Also Grievous Wounds / No Healing is now a hard counter, and that's easier to get than RFP on Undead. It would still require a point drop on the unit to remain playable, but this might a way to do it.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 17, 2017 11:28:45 GMT
I’m gonna be printing this so hard. All my lady Tharn are gonna be Pretend pirates firing that CiD cycle. Here’s hoping they reel in the horrid triad of Deny 1, Skarre1, and Coven. They are more likely to ignore you if you've made up your mind on how the battle will go before it even begins. They said the same to me. Didn’t say I would be intentionally posting negative feedback. I am going to try to stay unbiased and make my feedback constructive.
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Post by slaughtersun on Oct 17, 2017 12:20:26 GMT
For Denny, changing the feat to "all enemy models in the ctrl area get cripling grasp for one round" should be enough... a bit like baldur 2 feat.
This would still allow a disgusting armor swing on one target with parasite while not being tottaly awufull to the rest of the board.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 17, 2017 12:28:58 GMT
For Denny, changing the feat to "all enemy models in the ctrl area get cripling grasp for one round" should be enough... a bit like baldur 2 feat. This would still allow a disgusting armor swing on one target with parasite while not being tottaly awufull to the rest of the board. Using that kind of wording you could actually probably use an attachment like the troll sorcerer to dis-pell it as well.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Oct 17, 2017 12:30:49 GMT
For Denny, changing the feat to "all enemy models in the ctrl area get cripling grasp for one round" should be enough... a bit like baldur 2 feat. This would still allow a disgusting armor swing on one target with parasite while not being tottaly awufull to the rest of the board. This only works because Roots of the Earth is not an upkeep spell, Crippling Grasp is and each new instance will erase the previous. (and seeing as it would all be simultaneous, they would probably somehow all end up cancelling each other)
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Post by JJDM on Oct 17, 2017 12:30:55 GMT
What is "Black Fleet" exactly? I don't see any theme force with that name in war room
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Post by Gamingdevil on Oct 17, 2017 12:32:40 GMT
What is "Black Fleet" exactly? I don't see any theme force with that name in war room I assume it's a combination of Slaughter Fleet Raiders and Scourge of the Broken Coast, which we kind of all expected to be put together in one theme, but they gave us two instead. They did get spoiled at the same time, so it's likely they will go through CID together.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 17, 2017 12:34:24 GMT
For Denny, changing the feat to "all enemy models in the ctrl area get cripling grasp for one round" should be enough... a bit like baldur 2 feat. This would still allow a disgusting armor swing on one target with parasite while not being tottaly awufull to the rest of the board. So at least one of her debuffs can't stack with the feat? Interesting. That might be a great solution.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 17, 2017 12:35:22 GMT
What is "Black Fleet" exactly? I don't see any theme force with that name in war room Black Fleet seems to be a collective term for 'Scourge of the Broken Coast', which is the Satyxis theme, and 'Slaughter Fleet Raider' which is all the other living pirates. I think....
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 17, 2017 12:35:24 GMT
For Denny, changing the feat to "all enemy models in the ctrl area get cripling grasp for one round" should be enough... a bit like baldur 2 feat. This would still allow a disgusting armor swing on one target with parasite while not being tottaly awufull to the rest of the board. This only works because Roots of the Earth is not an upkeep spell, Crippling Grasp is and each new instance will erase the previous. (and seeing as it would all be simultaneous, they would probably somehow all end up cancelling each other) There must be a wording that would work, though.
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