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Post by postindirty on Oct 16, 2017 23:56:03 GMT
Yay Cryx Buffs! Good job I am travelling New Zealand for all of November with hopefully no internet access Hey. We got internet down here.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 17, 2017 3:13:04 GMT
Nerf Denny1 into unplayability for all I care as long as it makes my Blighted Trollin themed army actually playable.
Also Bloodgorger caster.
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Post by gobber on Oct 17, 2017 3:16:13 GMT
I have always kinda wanted cryx to get blighted troll light warbeasts... Maybe as a character lesser warlock pairing?
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 17, 2017 3:36:27 GMT
I’m gonna be printing this so hard. All my lady Tharn are gonna be Pretend pirates firing that CiD cycle.
Here’s hoping they reel in the horrid triad of Deny 1, Skarre1, and Coven.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 17, 2017 4:00:17 GMT
I’m gonna be printing this so hard. All my lady Tharn are gonna be Pretend pirates firing that CiD cycle. Here’s hoping they reel in the horrid triad of Deny 1, Skarre1, and Coven. They are more likely to ignore you if you've made up your mind on how the battle will go before it even begins. They said the same to me.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 17, 2017 4:59:25 GMT
I’m gonna be printing this so hard. All my lady Tharn are gonna be Pretend pirates firing that CiD cycle. Here’s hoping they reel in the horrid triad of Deny 1, Skarre1, and Coven. They are more likely to ignore you if you've made up your mind on how the battle will go before it even begins. They said the same to me. Frankly, I'll be shocked if there aren't some Cryx nerfs in the works already. WTC was egregiously bad (71% winrate?!) and cannot be accounted for the vagaries of the format. It's far bad than wurmwood was (53% winrate, pre-nerf iirc) worse than Haley2, and at or near Una2 levels of ridiculousness (but Una2 did have counters that worked, while all the evidence from WTC suggests that some very good players did their level best to tech for cryx...and still failed.
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 17, 2017 5:41:02 GMT
I would be really really surprised if Denny1 doesn't eat nerf a-la haley2 with coven being looked at more in a CID fashion.
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Post by far2casual on Oct 17, 2017 6:52:46 GMT
Frankly, I'll be shocked if there aren't some Cryx nerfs in the works already. WTC was egregiously bad (71% winrate?!) and cannot be accounted for the vagaries of the format. It's far bad than wurmwood was (53% winrate, pre-nerf iirc) worse than Haley2, and at or near Una2 levels of ridiculousness (but Una2 did have counters that worked, while all the evidence from WTC suggests that some very good players did their level best to tech for cryx...and still failed. It's a bit more complicated than that. In a team format, some of the players might have teched against it, but there's still the pairing process that allows the other team to make the GF player dodge that counter. I was at the WTC using GF, and half my games I managed to easily dodge the 1-2 counters the other team had, then they just sacrificed someone with janky KTC lists and hoped for the best. This is a factor that plays in the winrate. But this doesn't hide the real problem : GF is a list that requires you to bring very specific tools, or you just auto loose badly. The problem is, those tools are too rare, forcing people into specific, dedicated list just to handle one list in the metagame ... or just auto loose. That's the real problem of that list, it needs more soft counters that stand a chance against it. That's why I'm advocating for a rework of the Field promotion rule, to prevent people to field promote a leader to a model hidden in the deployment zone. Make it so that you can't field promote a model that was not in formation, and suddenly long range guns or ambushing units are soft counters as they will allow you to get that last model who's just 12-14" behind the frontlines of Revenants. Maybe such a thing would help balance further Recursion-based lists, that still are an interesting part of the game. I also agree that the control part of Denny's feat is unnecessary strong, and removing that would be a huge nerf for her. It won't allow to stand in the middle of the board T2 and feat the entire opponent's army, without fearing to get killed afterwards. -2 SPD will not protect her from everything. That being said, I don't agree -at all- that she embodies negative play experience, or the same can be said of all control casters in the game. She's just too strong offensively, but her gameplay is varied, deep and interesting. And she dies to a whelp's fart in return.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 17, 2017 7:03:44 GMT
Frankly, I'll be shocked if there aren't some Cryx nerfs in the works already. WTC was egregiously bad (71% winrate?!) and cannot be accounted for the vagaries of the format. It's far bad than wurmwood was (53% winrate, pre-nerf iirc) worse than Haley2, and at or near Una2 levels of ridiculousness (but Una2 did have counters that worked, while all the evidence from WTC suggests that some very good players did their level best to tech for cryx...and still failed. It's a bit more complicated than that. In a team format, some of the players might have teched against it, but there's still the pairing process that allows the other team to make the GF player dodge that counter. I was at the WTC using GF, and half my games I managed to easily dodge the 1-2 counters the other team had, then they just sacrificed someone with janky KTC lists and hoped for the best. This is a factor that plays in the winrate. But this doesn't hide the real problem : GF is a list that requires you to bring very specific tools, or you just auto loose badly. The problem is, those tools are too rare, forcing people into specific, dedicated list just to handle one list in the metagame ... or just auto loose. That's the real problem of that list, it needs more soft counters that stand a chance against it. That's why I'm advocating for a rework of the Field promotion rule, to prevent people to field promote a leader to a model hidden in the deployment zone. Make it so that you can't field promote a model that was not in formation, and suddenly long range guns or ambushing units are soft counters as they will allow you to get that last model who's just 12-14" behind the frontlines of Revenants. I also agree that the control part of Denny's feat is unnecessary strong, and removing that would be a huge nerf for her. It won't allow to stand in the middle of the board T2 and feat the entire opponent's army, without fearing to get killed afterwards. -2 SPD will not protect her from everything. That being said, I don't agree -at all- that she embodies negative play experience, or the same can be said of all control casters in the game. She's just too strong offensively, but her gameplay is varied, deep and interesting. And she dies to a whelp's fart in return. I am well aware of the impacts of the WTC format. The real issue is that, as you point out, GF creates ridiculously binary matchups. I don't know that your suggested change to field promotion is sufficient (though I think it makes sense) because the issue is that you cannot play into GF without significant ranged RFP (or just sheer volume of fire), magical weapons, and a caster who won't die to a Denny1 pop and drop. That's a short list for most factions, and finding a list that covers that AND the dark host list is nearly impossible for a lot of factions (I'm still struggling to find a half-decent drop in Ret, and we have more than one option for playing into GF.) Add in the need to tech for a potential black industries (or soon, black fleet) pairing, and you need to devote your pairing just to list chickening the Cryx player into a decent matchup. Which IMO is not okay. Coven, Denny1, the pirates, and probably either the wraith engine or the bane riders (one of them, not both) need to eat a nerf. Not a huge nerf in all cases, but still.
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Post by celeb on Oct 17, 2017 7:04:43 GMT
I think the Revenants can be fixed if you just make the leader to an officer. This makes counterplay possible and you now don't need a super specific counter anymore.
Deneghra would most likely be fine if they just made the feat D3+5 like they did with Haley2.
Coven is a worse offender imo. The feat is just too oppressive. I think making the Feat -2 MAT and RAt and giving Stealth to the army would be ok, but might be too harsh.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 17, 2017 7:07:32 GMT
So when does Man-o-War CID begins? I was expect that it would be on october, but for now there is gatorman CID. So it sees that Man-o-War would be next.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Oct 17, 2017 7:31:58 GMT
So when does Man-o-War CID begins? I was expect that it would be on october, but for now there is gatorman CID. So it sees that Man-o-War would be next. If I remeber corectly it was trenchers, northkin, gators, cryx, legion, khador.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 17, 2017 7:38:09 GMT
So when does Man-o-War CID begins? I was expect that it would be on october, but for now there is gatorman CID. So it sees that Man-o-War would be next. If I remeber corectly it was trenchers, northkin, gators, cryx, legion, khador. Thanks. Then those steam powered warriors are have to wait a while.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 17, 2017 7:55:01 GMT
Yay Cryx Buffs! Good job I am travelling New Zealand for all of November with hopefully no internet access Hey. We got internet down here. Don't be silly, if you had internet why did they have to light the beacons?
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Post by grabsnikk on Oct 17, 2017 7:55:57 GMT
I think the Revenants can be fixed if you just make the leader to an officer. This makes counterplay possible and you now don't need a super specific counter anymore. Deneghra would most likely be fine if they just made the feat D3+5 like they did with Haley2. Coven is a worse offender imo. The feat is just too oppressive. I think making the Feat -2 MAT and RAt and giving Stealth to the army would be ok, but might be too harsh. Im pretty sure that if Denny's feat went the same way that Haley2 then she would dissapear from competitive play pretty quick. I think its just needs to not prevent running or charging and that might be enough to make it a more playable matchup. The Coven's feat is fine as is. Its more the fact that they could potentially score 4 controls points a turn (3 witches + Egregore). A simple change would be to only allow them to score one point a turn so that you don't auto lose if you need to back up from the feat.
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