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Post by gordaunikus1 on Oct 13, 2017 18:50:01 GMT
I have been playing games w kaya3 in call of the Wild and loving it. I see a thread about call of the Wild w no merc/min units (my list has none) but I want to ask - what are the counters to this list? I find it’s good on scenario w two sets of stones, it destroys armor, it can munch a decent bit of infantry. I’m just still trying to find an off list and looking for your thoughts.
War Room Army
Circle Orboros - K3
Theme: Call of the Wild 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kaya the Wildheart - WB: +27 - Gorax Rager - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Shadowhorn Satyr - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 3) - Shadowhorn Satyr - PC: 12 - Wild Argus - PC: 7 - Wild Argus - PC: 7 - Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8 - Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8 - Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8 - Rotterhorn Griffon - PC: 7
Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter - PC: 6 Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0 Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0
Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0 Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
THEME: Call of the Wild ---
GENERATED : 10/13/2017 13:49:45 BUILD ID : 2050.17-09-10
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 13, 2017 19:08:36 GMT
Hey there, nice inclusion of Hutchuck he is my favorite minion solo right now haha. Honestly Anything with decent rat boosted shooting will hurt. Dark Host I can see hurting it a lot. But otherwise yeah...thats a really good list.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Oct 13, 2017 19:23:21 GMT
Lol huthuck has been great, but hasn’t rusted a jack yet. He ambushes in and annoys the crap out of their back lines (faces off w a greylord dickhead, knocks down a caster from the backarc, runs into their friendly zone for the scenario win).
I see ur point about high rat shooting. A lot of flight and jumps and shifting stones helps but it’s a great point. Two units of stones seems essential to score zones and heal light beasts when they get shot.
I’ve been trying adr for champions so morvahna (now in devourers host), but if not then maybe morv2 (devourers) or wormwood in bones w brigands. Problem is wormwood has hard counters like caine3 and Ret that also hurt kaya3
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 13, 2017 19:30:24 GMT
Lol huthuck has been great, but hasn’t rusted a jack yet. He ambushes in and annoys the crap out of their back lines (faces off w a greylord dickhead, knocks down a caster from the backarc, runs into their friendly zone for the scenario win). I see ur point about high rat shooting. A lot of flight and jumps and shifting stones helps but it’s a great point. Two units of stones seems essential to score zones and heal light beasts when they get shot. I’ve been trying adr for champions so morvahna (now in devourers host), but if not then maybe morv2 (devourers) or wormwood in bones w brigands. Problem is wormwood has hard counters like caine3 and Ret that also hurt kaya3 The issue with the current meta in relation to us is there is always going to be a list that somehow counters your anti gunline drop that also happens to be a gunline. Spells like Mage sight makes Wurmy cry and it is out there a lot more than you would think. This horribly limits our list construction options as both of your lists must be able to somehow deal with gunlines depending on their weaknesses. Luckily for you with some practice I think that Kaya list might be fast enough to feat turn 2 and engage by turn 3. the feat Plus Fog of War should keep you pretty safe as Def 17+ on your entire army is gonna be really really hard to pin down.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Oct 13, 2017 20:34:29 GMT
Yeah. I would love to see a ven diagram with like concealment on the left and like forests/buildings on the right. It would be populated w gunline answers. For example, lylyths ignore concealment so they go on the left. Sloan ignores concealment so goes on left. Caine 3 is a dick so he in the middle. Rets vyros(1/2?) ignores forests and clouds. Sevy2 and so on.
I guess really what I want to know is what falls through the gap if you have a pair like wurmwood (forests) and kaya3 (conceal/stealth). Or wurmwood (forest) and morv1 w stealth skew and sac pawn.
I dunno I’m just word spewing here. I have never been comfortable w the idea that there just isn’t a pairing that answers everything. And even if there was then you would inevitably have to play list chicken sometimes. I think the main takeaway is that circle (and all) players have to understand the factions weakness and play smart around it.
For example, I try to crutch on anti gunline tech rather than just ask a harder question. That’s the case w Mohsar and some nasty gunlines. They may have high rat and ignore ur tech, but can they avoid an assassination from up to 26” out (port 8, sands 16ish, 2” dopple)?
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Post by Dev Null on Oct 13, 2017 22:42:51 GMT
Looks like a solid list to me; have you faced much ARM spam with it? You've got Primal, and you've got Wraithbane for people stacking buffs, so I think you can handle spikes, but it looks like it might struggle some against a solid wall of high-ARM.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Oct 15, 2017 6:26:20 GMT
That’s a fair point. My honest answer is I haven’t played enough games to know. Are you thinking of a particular list?
Against like 10 heavies I think we have so much scenario potential: - goats throwing impossible to kill peices - jamming dodge griffons - dopplebark against hordes
Against 1 beefy target like a mountain/glacier king, the pureblood maxes out at pow 21 (hopefully w a free charge from the blackclads). Or like pow 19 w Kaya giving it blessed against baldur2/dumb arcane shield.
If it can’t be thrown then high defense w dodge and feat helps (I find using the birds as synergy + primal missiles w dodge to jam and chip away at beefy targets is good). Now that a big target has taken a griffon to the face, a primaled or blessed goat w full synergy should do the trick.
If it’s a jack, u can rust it w hutchhuck. If it’s a beast, you can more or less control w dopplebark
Your probably right that I could trade out some junk (like one of the Argus) for a stalker, but I think circle players at this point are so used to finding other answers to high armor since mk3 dropped that we don’t have to brute force pretty much anything.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 16, 2017 1:13:10 GMT
I actually don't think you are gonna find an ARM skew that will throw you off too much. You have a +5/+5 accuracy and damage swing (+5/+7 if hutchuck can rust) Even the Judo Goats can hurt a heavy with that kind of stat boost...
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Post by jisidro on Oct 16, 2017 8:41:02 GMT
The issue will probably be staying power... ARM 17 max on beasts means they'll explode and also invalidates their DEF because boosting to hit will be worth to land a base P+S or Dice+something.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Oct 16, 2017 9:03:02 GMT
Your biggest counters are things that ignore your feat, since your threat range isn't fantastic (not terrible, but not great).
The following casters I see semi-regularly, and are all a problem for Kaya3:
Sorscha1 Kreoss2 Kreoss1
Extrapolating, Barnabus would be the same as Kreoss1. Shade3 would have a similar effect, and Broka2 could cause similar problems.
Anything with a timewalk control feat could be an issue as well. Haley2 is obvious, as is Denny1, but anything with a big ARM swing could effectively do the same (Stryker1; Baldur2; Harkevich).
-und_ed
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 16, 2017 12:32:43 GMT
The issue will probably be staying power... ARM 17 max on beasts means they'll explode and also invalidates their DEF because boosting to hit will be worth to land a base P+S or Dice+something. I think you underestimate how hard it is to hit Def 15. Even mat 7 needs a boosted 9 to hit the birds meaning that about half the attacks will miss and it also means you can dodge away. The issue is if they can get to mat 9 easily. Then you are in trouble. People are not running jacks as much as they used to (outside of a few factions like Ret and Cygnar but even they are going more combined arms) Which means boosted attacks are going to become less common and being def 14-15 is going to make the average infantry joe pretty sad when trying to roll unboosted 8's and 9's
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Oct 16, 2017 12:53:19 GMT
People are not running jacks as much as they used to (outside of a few factions like Ret and Cygnar but even they are going more combined arms) Which means boosted attacks are going to become less common and being def 14-15 is going to make the average infantry joe pretty sad when trying to roll unboosted 8's and 9's This is very true. I've been running Bane Knights plus Wrong-Eye lately for exactly this reason - infantry just stop dead when trying to hit DEF 14 under star-crossed. Works like a treat right until you leave wrong-eye in charge range (still kicking myself over that blunder this weekend) -und_ed
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 16, 2017 12:58:04 GMT
People are not running jacks as much as they used to (outside of a few factions like Ret and Cygnar but even they are going more combined arms) Which means boosted attacks are going to become less common and being def 14-15 is going to make the average infantry joe pretty sad when trying to roll unboosted 8's and 9's This is very true. I've been running Bane Knights plus Wrong-Eye lately for exactly this reason - infantry just stop dead when trying to hit DEF 14 under star-crossed. Works like a treat right until you leave wrong-eye in charge range (still kicking myself over that blunder this weekend) -und_ed I mean my biggest issue with WE/SJ is WE can be pretty hard to protect once the lines clash. Even with submerge. My last game with testament I used my feat to charge right through my opponents jamming line and kill him. 8" means he has to be pretty far up the board to do anything meaningful with star crossed. Now, magical weapons could have stopped that, but a savvy opponent can normally finagle a way to kill WE without expending to many resources IME.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 16, 2017 15:17:25 GMT
Hope you guys are right.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Oct 16, 2017 15:42:32 GMT
My hope w jumping goats and flight and ghost walk and feat and concealment and two sets of stones iand dopplebark is that I can protect my very fragile but high def pieces from many different threats by hiding them behind forests, building, and a screen of griffons and Argus.
I keep using the feat a turn earlier than expected to protect my pieces. Surely things get dinged up and I lose a goat or a couple griffons, but after a few heals i am hopefully in tact enough to smash.
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