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Post by Dev Null on Oct 6, 2017 23:29:24 GMT
Pretty much since the release of MkIII, I've been off-and-on playing variations on a list I call "Kaya and the Howlers" - mostly because it sounds like a cool band name, but also because it's Kaya, various argii, and a bunch of Purebloods. Now that Call of the Wild is out, it's tailor-made for the list; I mostly just add free stuff. But I'm having trouble making things fit, just because of odd point values, and the fact that Kaya2 is _1_ warbeast point of being able to get the fourth free solo...
Kaya2 Laris Wilder (free) Wild Argus Feral Purebloodx4 Wayfarer (free) Shifting Stones (free) Keeper Shifting Stones Swamp Gobber Chef
I really want another Wayfarer in this list. I could ditch the Wilder for it, but I really like her for when I do play attrition. And I'm missing the Moonhound I had in the old version for removing Stealth. On the other hand, I've gained a fourth Pureblood, and at 4x boostable POW 14 spray10's with Assault and Wraithbane, that feels like a credible assassination vector that people are going to have to seriously think about. Especially with the 'Laris runs 14"; Spirit Shift; Doppler Bark' combo that I always liked before the theme rolled in. But I don't really get to play much anymore, and haven't had a chance to try it; am I dreaming? Is 4 boosted POW 14s not enough to scare most casters these days? At least enough to keep you camping and thus wasting your Fury/Focus?
If the assassination doesn't pan out, I found that POW 14 sprays clear infantry pretty well, and Strength-warping Primalled Purebloods really aren't all that terrible in melee, if you use enough of em. A brick of nothing but natural (don't forget Wraithbane! Now for only 1 Fury!) ARM20s will stop em in their tracks, of course, but this is not the list for that.
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Post by Fudly on Oct 7, 2017 6:30:17 GMT
Realistically, I don't think the spray assassination is happening. Without barking, 2/4 sprays should miss, and two sprays are likely to only do 12 to 15/15 camping nothing. With barking, you have it if they camped less than 2. The trouble is you only have one turn to use Kaya's feat really well. After that, Laris will be dead, and the argus will be wasted points. I would go with this: | Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Call of the Wild
(Kaya 2) Kaya the Moonhunter [+24][*]Feral Warpwolf [18] [*]Pureblood Warpwolf [17] [*]Pureblood Warpwolf [17] [*]Warpwolf Stalker [19] [*]Warpwolf Stalker [19] [*]Druid Wilder [0(4)]
Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Shifting Stones [3] Shifting Stones [3]
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You should still have enough stone soup to eat on feat turn. The gallows will hopefully let you cast dog pile after Laris dies. The stalkers should be better at cleaning up damaged enemies and surviving with free sprint. Two wayfarers means you have better odds against lists that out-threat 13". The list still hinges around the life of a 1 point solo. I really wish it could fit a gremlin swarm.
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Post by Dev Null on Oct 8, 2017 23:18:57 GMT
"With barking, you have it if they camped less than 2."
I'd never even try the assassination without barking (or I suppose, getting something else in there to finish it.) But I guess my thought was that it _threats_ the bark-spray assassination _all_ the time, so you really need to camp every turn that you can't completely block Laris' access. Including a 2h throw from the Feral to make a hole, if necessary. And I'll take a free strike; all he has to do is survive on 1 box.
I'd also have said you should be camping 3, especially if there's any chance of getting Laris within melee with his run, since Kaya then picks up Flank. Remember, she can add a boosted melee attack or Muzzle to the mix. Neither pack much punch, of course, but they are essentially auto-hitting against DEF 5, and even a few points off makes surviving the 2 untransferred boosted POW 14s that ignore ARM buffs into a sketchy proposition for a lot of casters. And that's Hordes; Warmachine casters have it worse. I mean ok, the Butcher on full camp maybe isn't too worried, but a natural ARM 15 on full camp is looking at 19.5 average damage. Given the way spikes work, I'd take that shot.
The point isn't that I expect to actually win by assassination; just that you'll have to camp a lot, or position yourself very carefully, and that gives me a bit of a positioning advantage.
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Post by Fudly on Oct 9, 2017 5:59:02 GMT
I'm sure you have more Kaya2 experience than me. If you're somehow managing to keep Laris alive, than what you say makes sense. In my games, Laris is the only thing left in range on feat turn, so he always dies.
How do you keep Laris alive?
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 9, 2017 6:17:59 GMT
I'm sure you have more Kaya2 experience than me. If you're somehow managing to keep Laris alive, than what you say makes sense. In my games, Laris is the only thing left in range on feat turn, so he always dies. How do you keep Laris alive? Not the OP, but I've played a LOT of Kaya2. On feat turn, I typically do one of two things with Kaya (unless my opponent hands me an assassination, of course.) 1. upkeep forced evolution. Run Laris somewhere safe. Move up, cast dogpile on a high value target, use Laris animus to peace out. 2. upkeep forced evolution, Run Laris somewhere safe. Move up, primal something (usually a Stalker) then use Laris animus to peace out. Your ability to control the board and effectively project threat decreases dramatically if you lose Laris. It's not quite as bad as losing Cassius for Wurmwood, or Thorn for Haley2, but it's close. You do NOT want to throw him away to arc a single dogpile on feat turn.
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Post by Dev Null on Oct 9, 2017 16:29:16 GMT
I too use Laris largely as a movement method for Kaya. The only time he's diving deep into the enemy lines is when I'm going all-out for an assassination. And apart from that assassination and feat turn, about the only time he's useful as an arc node is when he starts a turn in range of something that needs buffs. I'll add that it's not just forward-back movement that you get value out of with this. I'll also get some use out of something like:
Laris and Kaya are about the same distance forward - far enough back to not be easy kills - but widely spread. Warbeasts are mostly central. After I see how my opponent reacts, I pick a flank and commit to hitting that one as hard as I can. If Kaya is already on that flank, she feats and positions such that the other flank can't reach her; Laris allows Kaya to still cast buffs on the far flank if necessary, before feating back to safety. If Kaya _isn't_ already on that flank, Laris can skew even harder over on the flank, Kaya moves central / forward to cast Primal / Dogpile, feats, then animuses over to Laris' bolthole which all the beasties will then feat back to.
It tends to leave half of any scenario objectives firmly in your opponent's hands... but also makes it harder for them to retaliate. So it's situational.
Another way to keep Laris from dying on feat turn is with double Shifting Stones - it's part of why I like them in this list. Stones1 port a stone from Stones2 as far forward as they can. Laris moves forward to get a Dogpile target within 12" AND toe into the Stones2 triangle. Kaya casts Dogpile. Stones2 port Laris backwards. Usually not as good as just having Kaya cast the Dogpile and port back with Laris' animus, but sometimes you can reach with one and not the other...
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Post by sirk on Oct 9, 2017 18:07:54 GMT
There is also an easier plan that I use often: port laris with stones, activate Kaya to dogpile through him, activate laris and move him back with feat. Laris doesn't get everywhere with just 8" teleport but now that dogpile has range 12" that is usually enough.
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Post by wolfchild on Nov 8, 2017 10:06:47 GMT
Activating Laris after being teleported means he can’t do anything unless already in melee with something; you can’t advance after being teleported, (unless that changed in Mk3, or an errata somewhere?)
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 8, 2017 13:46:33 GMT
Activating Laris after being teleported means he can’t do anything unless already in melee with something; you can’t advance after being teleported, (unless that changed in Mk3, or an errata somewhere?) While this is true other people are talking about running laris so he's not doing anything in that scenario either. By doing the combo using the stones and the feat you save Kaya the fury for casting Laris' animus. There is also an easier plan that I use often: port laris with stones, activate Kaya to dogpile through him, activate laris and move him back with feat. Laris doesn't get everywhere with just 8" teleport but now that dogpile has range 12" that is usually enough. Sirk has the right of it and this is how I used Laris when I was playing Kaya2. Of course back then it was a ~9" teleport and you could double teleport for really long slingshots.
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Post by sirk on Nov 8, 2017 16:26:07 GMT
Activating Laris after being teleported means he can’t do anything unless already in melee with something; you can’t advance after being teleported, (unless that changed in Mk3, or an errata somewhere?) I wasn't probably very clear. I meant activate him after the feat, do nothing and place him safely next to Kaya with feat.
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