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Post by mcdermott on Oct 8, 2017 2:41:44 GMT
Beatable != a fun game to play.
Ghost fleet is beatable, its not a fun game to play.
OP wants to know about how to take the sting away. "its beatable" doesn't take the sting away.
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Post by trollsareblue on Oct 8, 2017 5:17:12 GMT
Beatable != a fun game to play. Ghost fleet is beatable, its not a fun game to play. OP wants to know about how to take the sting away. "its beatable" doesn't take the sting away. That definition of fun is what is usually called an "opinion." Not everyone is bummed out playing against tough lists. Also, at some point it's on the player to have fun, win or lose.
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 8, 2017 5:24:01 GMT
At which point is that? The point where I told OP that if he wanted to make sure people didn't get that dead inside look in his eyes he should make sure he isn't bringing lists that require niche tech to bring a fight to?
I mean on a certain level bring the thunder and the noise, but we haven't seen comparative lists, we don't know comparative experience levels, and all the platitudes offered aside, if you continually bring a firehose to a squirt gun fight people aren't going to be happy to see you show up. If OP is showing to a casual play time with cutting edge lists from one of the stronger factions in the game right now, no advice offered here is going to make the people running mohsar or harkevich enthusiastic for the game.
Also "some people like it" is irrelevant, OP listed what the response is in his very first post, its WHY the post is here ostensibly and all the advice about how to make other people shift their play isn't going to improve that for him.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 8, 2017 13:14:34 GMT
Beatable != a fun game to play. Ghost fleet is beatable, its not a fun game to play. OP wants to know about how to take the sting away. "its beatable" doesn't take the sting away. I mean my point was that grymkin are perfectly fine. You can beat grymkin and have fun without rfp. Skin and Moans are disgusting sure but there are ways to kill them and deal wth them even at full corpses. Dreamer may be an NPE but the rest of the faction is fine. Wanderer has star crossed which can turn into an NPE but overall he has a very defensive kit and most of the faction caps at def 13. Ghost fleet does require a very specific set of tools and is typically paired with dark host witch requires a completely different set of tools. Overall comparing grymkin as a faction and Ghost fleet is just...not a good comparison. Comparing dreamer in dark menagerie to ghost fleet under denny 1 or coven is a OK comparison. But even then A lot of her kit only comes into play with incredibly skilled players whereas ghost fleet and denny 1 are pretty awful to play against even piloted by an average player. Overall I really think the game is what you make of it. If friends are not having fun playing your lists, than you should try and change your lists to be more fun for yourself and your friends. If they still don't have fun, well maybe they are playing the wrong game. Company of iron may be a better option for more casual players. Also, Mohsar is a perfectly acceptable caster, and Hark is one of the better Khador jack casters in 2017 thanks to mobility and a very good attrition feat. So not sure why those casters would be causing issues. If someone is not winning games with harkevitch the problem is not his list.
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 8, 2017 17:04:05 GMT
Harkevich metaed out a while ago...lists that ran him run B3 or karchev now
Edit: Because of 4 gremlin swarm grymkin specifically.
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domo
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by domo on Oct 8, 2017 19:38:50 GMT
Wow, I didn't expect this topic to explode quite this much! Replying on my phone right now so will give a more considered reply tomorrow when I'm behind a keyboard. The factions I'm playing that are looking like they are feeling the most hurt (off the top of my head) are Menoth and Trolls. My Menoth opponent runs very Jack heavy, I have dropped Dreamer in Bump and OW3 in DM. Dreamer had too many answers for him, and he had no answers for the Swarms in any DM list. My Trolls opponent plays only rarely (which I really I don't want to push him out of the game), and Jarl into Dreamer DM wasn't bad, but Sacrifice just broke him (he was trying to play around it, but got caught up in order of activations, mistakenly killing a Gorehound before either of the heavily wounded SnM's). Other factions I face regularly are Minions, and Legion currently. Now that all of the releases are out, and I have everything I want, I'll be running the Pagani lists from the Chain Attack special, and as it all fits in my case, I'll be probably letting my opponent pick which warlock they want to face (to make it a little more of an uphill battle for me, as well as hopefully leading me to play and practice all of the warlocks, without sticking to one or two favourites). Thanks to everyone joining in this discussion, it is very helpful to hear other opinions
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Post by celeb on Oct 12, 2017 5:59:38 GMT
I think you are confusing factions. to play into Cryx, you need RFP.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 12, 2017 10:07:37 GMT
You can't plan for playing aying with your ego...
That said, don't a non-stop caster into top caster's...
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 12, 2017 12:24:58 GMT
Harkevich metaed out a while ago...lists that ran him run B3 or karchev now Edit: Because of 4 gremlin swarm grymkin specifically. Actually Hark Meta'd out because of Ghost fleet and dark host. Both of witch are horrible games for him. honestly, incorporeal, stealth models are a problem for just about all of khador not just hark. He is still a really solid attrition caster IMO.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 16, 2017 12:13:18 GMT
incorporeal, stealth models are a problem for just about all of khador not just hark. I think the general consensus in the Khador forums is that if we tech for fighting stealth and incorporeal (which we more or less can do), then we end up with a list that sucks against anything else, and the Cryx player simply drops their other list. I don't actually know myself, that's just what I've heard said. I think Hark's popularity has fallen off since themes took over because he likes a very jack-heavy army, and we don't really have a theme for that.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 16, 2017 12:28:08 GMT
incorporeal, stealth models are a problem for just about all of khador not just hark. I think the general consensus in the Khador forums is that if we tech for fighting stealth and incorporeal (which we more or less can do), then we end up with a list that sucks against anything else, and the Cryx player simply drops their other list. I don't actually know myself, that's just what I've heard said. I think Hark's popularity has fallen off since themes took over because he likes a very jack-heavy army, and we don't really have a theme for that. I thought Jaws was the Jack theme?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 16, 2017 14:18:04 GMT
I thought Jaws was the Jack theme? Dunno, I'm not really into themes; as far as I've been able to understand, none of our themes give any advantages to our jacks except the Winter Guard theme gives advance moves (but you need to take a Winter Guard unit for each move, so you need to spend points on units that Hark can't support in any way) and one or two can give free Forgeseers (so a bit of "free" focus). Also, I don't think the jacks count towards free points in most of our themes. I'm probably talking rubbish to be honest, as I said, I'm not really into themes so I only have some vague impressions of what they do.
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Post by ysthrall on Oct 17, 2017 17:28:46 GMT
Given that Grymkin are pretty wacky and crazy (certainly the way I play them), I feel that this is a player issue, not a meta issue.
Win gently, having a laugh without rubbing it in. Lose flamboyantly and doing crazy stuff.
I have to agree with the OP that as the Grymkin become a little more familiar, they will be seen as more fun and less fun-anulling.
Same as Retribution, Convergence, Cygnar, and every other faction that's ever had a new shiny that rules the roost. Briefly.
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Post by Azuresun on Oct 18, 2017 23:51:09 GMT
Disagree. Knowledge/experience of Arcana triggers aids playing against Grymkin considerably, as does proper target selection. Baiting Arcana is a thing. A large number of Grymkin lists also struggle with live SR2017 scenarios and control elements. How does the faction with spammable Gremlin Swarms struggle with scenario?
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Lahn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 100
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Post by Lahn on Oct 19, 2017 3:57:32 GMT
Disagree. Knowledge/experience of Arcana triggers aids playing against Grymkin considerably, as does proper target selection. Baiting Arcana is a thing. A large number of Grymkin lists also struggle with live SR2017 scenarios and control elements. How does the faction with spammable Gremlin Swarms struggle with scenario? Because they become heavily reliant on them.
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