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Post by tiberius on Mar 23, 2018 13:33:05 GMT
Thank you for the clarification bward, I misinterpreted that as one model per casting and the same model cannot be targeted more than once. If you can only cast it once per turn, why doesn't it just say that instead of the two extra sentences?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 23, 2018 13:47:30 GMT
Thank you for the clarification bward, I misinterpreted that as one model per casting and the same model cannot be targeted more than once. If you can only cast it once per turn, why doesn't it just say that instead of the two extra sentences? I think it's more a case of not being able to have multiple instances of the same spell on yourself (same name effects don't stack) and you can never interrupt movement to cast another one. Hence, you just cast it and move with no inbetween.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 23, 2018 14:19:53 GMT
After reading it more carefully, it does say it expires. When I first read it, I thought you could move, then cast it, move something, let it expire, then keep repeating. Obviously that was incorrect. Thanks for the clarifications guys.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 24, 2018 5:10:21 GMT
I agree gedditoffme, she really wants slaughter fleet, scourge of the broken coast or black industries. Though anyone can use and make dark host work, as that theme is pretty caster independent. Faster banes is always a good thing. I will get infernal machines up next. I actually think Dark Host & Slaughter Fleet are her best themes. In Dark Host you can just bring a Unit of Cephalyx Overlords as your Mercenary option & since they’re Partisan Cryx they count towards free points & can be recurred with Reinforcements, so you aren’t forfeiting any parts of her kit, and you get to Combine Deceleration with the Wraith Engine Aura alongside Dash for Speed 6 Banes that are extremely resilient to shooting.
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Post by gedditoffme on Mar 24, 2018 6:18:20 GMT
I agree gedditoffme, she really wants slaughter fleet, scourge of the broken coast or black industries. Though anyone can use and make dark host work, as that theme is pretty caster independent. Faster banes is always a good thing. I will get infernal machines up next. I actually think Dark Host & Slaughter Fleet are her best themes. In Dark Host you can just bring a Unit of Cephalyx Overlords as your Mercenary option & since they’re Partisan Cryx they count towards free points & can be recurred with Reinforcements, so you aren’t forfeiting any parts of her kit, and you get to Combine Deceleration with the Wraith Engine Aura alongside Dash for Speed 6 Banes that are extremely resilient to shooting.
Agree with Deller - Dark Host looks bonkers with Skarr3. She also brings her own shooting and a couple of boosted leviathans / Desecrators to give a pretty good ranged battlegroup to support the entirely melee focussed bane list.
I'm not sure cephalyx are essential, and struggle to find the points for them in my banes list (I take Darragh to increase the speed of Banes again). Not sure there's an 'optimum' list out there yet, but the principles seem strong.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 24, 2018 10:50:26 GMT
I agree with you guys, I have a dark host list I am tooling around with that has Darragh and a Wraith Engine. It seemed like fun synergy to get +4 ARM vs ranged and magic attacks in the overlap area, and +2 speed on undead models in the overlap areas. I am having trouble getting cephalyx in there as well. I just want too many other things.
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Post by gedditoffme on Mar 24, 2018 11:30:23 GMT
Here’s what I was thinking for the record. Relies on the principles I and Deller were talking about, and trying to fit as many banes as possible around a slight support bloat (in wanting to fit Darragh, wraith engine and a few necrotechs or machine wraiths). Feel a second unit warriors is more important than riders, to give more recursion via Ua, since Skarre has no recursion on her own. Desecrators cancontrol infantry, should be focus efficient and occasional spot removal or melee duties. Probably won’t needguided fire most of the time due to accumulator.
War Room Army
Cryx - Skarr3 dark host
Theme: Dark Host 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Skarre admiral of black fleet yarrrrrgh - WJ: +27 - Desecrator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Desecrator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
Wraith Engine - PC: 15
Bane Lord Tartarus - PC: 0 Darragh Wrathe - PC: 9 - Darragh Wrathe (Continued) Necrotech - PC: 0 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Necrotech - PC: 2
Bane Warriors - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Bane Warrior Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Bane Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Bane Warriors - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Bane Warrior Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 5
THEME: Dark Host ---
GENERATED : 03/24/2018 21:54:43 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
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Post by tiberius on Mar 26, 2018 12:22:55 GMT
Skarre Admiral of the Black Fleet - Dark Host
Dark Host is our bane theme. For another take (and probably a stronger more efficient list, especially for attrition) see the post above by gedditoffme. The theme benefits give all banes prowl and you get 2 4-inch AOE cloud effects to place before deployment. This helps block line of sight to most of your army (huge bases excepted) and helps trigger prowl by giving concealment to anything completely within the cloud effect. Dark Host is probably one of Cryx's most powerful themes because it has plentiful, hard hitting, tough infantry that deliver themselves. Their drawbacks are they are little slower than some other options and are not as accurate as some other options. So to counteract this, a caster or support in the list that can help them hit more accurately or help them move faster shore up those weaknesses. Dark Host options provide both with Darragh Wrathe giving death ride and Bane Lord Tartarus giving veteran leader bonus.
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - Leviathan - Desecrator - Defiler Wraith Engine Bane Lord Tartarus (free) Darragh Wrathe Necrotech x 2 Ogrun Bokur Bane Warriors (max) + CA (free) Bane Knights (max)
The backbone of the list is the bane warriors and knights. With their own wall of steel, deceleration and the wraith engine, your bane knights can be ARM 22 vs ranged and magic attacks in the area that overlaps 10" around the wraith engine and 14" around Skarre. This is ARM 19 for the tough bane warriors. Realistically, unless you are staggering waves in a nice tight formation, only one group is getting that bonus, though either one can be benefiting from one or the other. Darragh Wrathe makes them faster with death ride, giving all undead models +1 Speed. Skarre's spell dash gives herself and all warrior models in her control area an additional +1 Speed. That is a massive increase to the group in that overlap area (14" around Skarre and 9" around wrathe) though Wrathe is a lot more positionable to get that speed where you want it with his reposition.
As mentioned before, another weakness of banes is that they are not the most accurate coming in at an average MAT of 6. Tartarus gives them +1 to hit within 9" of himself and can provide his own dark shroud and any living enemy models he kills, he can replenish bane units on a one for one basis. They hunt heavies just fine and do some real damage on the charge between dark shrouded weapon masters on the warriors and brutal charge with 2" reach on the knights. Draconic blessing can be applied to either unit for really good results as +2 STR and immunity to fire are both very beneficial abilities for banes.
The warjack options were chosen to take advantage of guided fire. The leviathan with automatically boosted attack rolls will perform really well and the desecrator, already efficient for a crab jack (2 free focus including power up and accumulator) has a really nice anti-infantry roll with its scather/void field. The defiler can benefit as well as a POW 12 automatically boosted spray can clear a lot of infantry as well, and you can hot swap draconic blessing from unit to unit with good positioning and order of activation timing through its arc node.
The biggest weak link in the list is Skarre herself and needed a bit of protection against anything that could get through the lines of tough infantry and the pair of crab jacks to threaten Skarre's naturally high armor. Mostly shooting would be the concern as you cannot hide Skarre's huge base from anything. The Ogrun Bokur is placed in the list as a shield guarding body guard. It can slam and hit like a truck in melee if you keep him within 6" of his client, which is probably Skarre. Though other good options exist in the list too if you wanted to send him with Tartarus or the bane command attachment.
Overall, this list should roll over anything that is not dedicated anti-infantry specifically made to penetrate high armor infantry (nemo 3?). You will be pretty much immune to blast damage with the exception of some dice spiking boosts. Continuous effect fire shouldn't be much of an issue either if you place draconic blessing correctly. Its a very strong list and she is one of the banes favorite casters thanks to how much she brings to the banes.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 27, 2018 12:29:23 GMT
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - Black Industries
Black Industries is the surprisingly powerful warjack focused theme that gives a +2" deployment zone extension and all heavy warjacks gain Carapace. Carapace gives +4 ARM vs ranged attacks and free strikes. For a warcaster that wants to be setting back and shooting on her huge base, this helps shut down enemy guns against her forces. Especially if you bring a shield guard or two. Now the things to remember is that only the heavy warjacks get the Carapace ability so colossal and bone jack warjacks are left out.
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - The withershadow Combine - Leviathan - Nightwretch x 2 (free) - Malice Aiakos, Scourge of Meridius - Stalker x 2 Iron Lich Overseer - Seether Warwitch Siren x 2 Necrotech x 2 Cephalyx Mind Slaver and Drudges
I started out with a Kraken in Skarre's battle group because they really are that good with her. She gives all their ranged attacks a free boost with guided fire. But thinking about it, I didn't think it was enough of a board presence as it was replacing the withershadow combine, the drudges and a random heavy warjack. I really wanted the unit for draconic blessing and dash.
The Cephalyx Mind Slaver and Drudges are a discount jamming unit that can actually get some work done under Skarre. They are normally low MAT and do not hit impressively hard and can be very slow, but under skarre and their own combined melee attack, attacking in pairs, puts them up to MAT 7, P+S 14 with draconic blessing and SPD 6 and parry with Dash. They are also tough and can refill their own unit with Prep For Surgery and Skarre can keep them going with reinforcements special rule.
I picked the battlegroup because I really like leviathans with Skarre, the nightwretches were the nicest free bone jack I could take with the most synergy with guided fire and Malice is a the character reaper with some soul shenanigans. You can get a free boost with his harpoon ensuring the hit, and with its higher base damage, it doesn't always need to boost damage to get the drag triggered. Additionally, if you have a soul, you can take control of a warjack that you damage and set it up for bad things from the rest of your list, or just move it somewhere that is inconvenient for your opponent. And nothing else in the list is fighting Malice for souls. She gets them within 5" of her and gets +1 ARM per soul on her. That is a hefty armor bonus with Carapace too.
I included Aiakos and the Iron Lich Overseer with some fast and hard hitting melee options. Aiakos and a pair of stalkers is a significant mobile assassination threat. With escort, those stalkers are SPD 9 with a 5" leap at the cost of a focus. Each one has two P+S 12 attacks with grievous wounds on a MAT 7 chassis. Solid.
The seether under the iron lich overseer can be swinging at P+S 17 + darkshroud + 2 damage from Crush + extra attacks from focus from the warwitches. That is P+S 21 (effectively) and is straight up dice on shield heavies in the protectorate of menoth. The iron lich himself is no slouch in melee and is harder to kill than he looks. He can also give out stealth on the approach, which dash helps with increasing his speed, letting him keep up with the seether.
The necrotechs will probably follow around Skarre and keep her alive, though you could follow around malice and when it gets a good drag, they can collect the scrap.
So while the kraken list focuses more on ranged assassination, I feel it doesn't have the board presence to play a good attrition or scenario game that the list with the drudges has. Its just a better all comers list. Overall, not a bad theme for Skarre. It has all the support she wants and a nice choice of warjacks.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 27, 2018 12:50:46 GMT
Note that you can extend the Seether's threat range with "Boatstream" (Dark Waves) because otherwise it is extremely slow, but honestly I wouldn't bother with it. The ILO+Seether+WWS package is cute, but ridiculously expensive. Consider taking one of the flying bone jacks for free stuff. They can also be painful with Draconic Blessing and Skarre doesn't have anything to arc anyway.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 27, 2018 13:37:42 GMT
Yeah, trade in the ILO + Seether and Malice and that may get you up to a Kraken, maybe need a necrotech in that trade off too.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 27, 2018 13:44:59 GMT
Yeah, trade in the ILO + Seether and Malice and that may get you up to a Kraken, maybe need a necrotech in that trade off too. Well, I start every one of my (theoretical) Skarre 3 lists with 3 Leviathans, so your mileage may vary
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Post by tiberius on Mar 27, 2018 13:47:31 GMT
haha, unfortunately I only own 1, but I would definitely use three if I had them.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 28, 2018 16:22:55 GMT
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - Scourge of the Broken Coast
Our new satyxis battle engine warcaster with the satyxis theme. The theme gives all solos in the list Dodge (they get to move 2" after an enemy attack misses them) and gives a unit of satyxis blood witches ambush. Skarre herself brings a lot to the table in the terms of making your troops faster, which are already some of the fastest troops in the game, and can greatly increase their damage output. Typically satyxis raiders can get the alpha strike against almost anything except high volume cavalry lists and with Dash and draconic blessing will be hitting above their pay grade with gang and the charge factored in. I would drop this theme against most warmachine lists and laugh.
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - Satyxis Blood Priestess - Kraken - Defiler Satyxis Raider Captain Several Blacktide Axiara Wrathblade Black Ogrun Iron Mongers Satyxis Raiders + Sea Witch Satyxis Blood Witches + blood hag Satyxis Gunslingers
That's a lot of warrior models. I did include a few models that are not released yet, but if I was building this list in two months from now, this is how I would do it. The Satyxis Blood Priestess allows a free upkeep of draconic blessing and gives Skarre the Sucker rule. Combined with her ability to reinforcements the guys back that are killed with sucker assuming you keep the iron mongers close by, suckering into 5 wound tough ogrun sounds like a really annoying thing to shoot through. The priestess has innate stealth and has two melee attacks, one of which is P+S13 and magical with three optional abilities if you kill a living model. The first is dispel and doesn't matter what you hit, as long as you hit something that has an upkeep or animi on it, those effects immediately expire and then you do the damage. Distillation is the second ability that allows you to heal D3+3 damage on skarre. The third ability allows you to cast a spell like a spell slave effect with those restrictions, which is useless with this warcaster, but the other things she brings to the table, especially the free upkeep and sucker, are very much desired.
The Kraken makes a nice centerpiece, ranged support and armor cracker. You are probably giving draconic blessing to the raiders, as P+S 19 (+ up to 3 corpse tokens) with chain weapon and 4" reach is typically enough to put the hurt on any heavy you come into contact with. You could make sure its dead with the +2 additional strength. The kraken doesn't particularly care about fire continuous effect or most sources of fire damage. Though the real reason you bring the Kraken is the RNG 16 POW 14 AOE 5 boostable gun that can be automatically boosted with guided fire along with its shorter range 12" d3+1 rate of fire POW 12 flayer. Oh, corpses add to the damage of the big gun including its blast damage. You add the damage after dividing the base power so it would be POW 10 blast if you are fully loaded on corpses.
The satyxis raider captain brings has automatic knockdown on all of its melee weapons. She gives no sleeping on the job (immunity to knockdown) to all satyxis in her command area, and is a weapon master on her lacerator, which also has feedback and a 2" reach. She has relentless change and sprint as well so is hard to tie up and keep away from where she wants to go.
Severa Blacktide is the character gunslinger that is not released yet (next month!). She has gunfighter and gets boosted attack and damage rolls while using gunfighter (shooting ranged attacks in melee). She gives the gunslingers the run and gun ability which allows them to make a full advance if they manage to kill something with a range attack during their activation and she can shoot back at anything that misses her with a ranged attack (combined with dodge, could allow you to reposition to a more defensible, or more favorable spot before making your attack). She has three special shots with her two RNG 10, POW 10 guns. The first is black penny ignoring in melee combat modifiers to her targets. Great for clearing off the Kraken or Skarre. Ghost shot ignores line of sight to the target. Heart Seeker gains additional die on damage rolls, then discard the lowest. She has a chain attack too which is like a poor man's hellmouth. Vortex Blast lets you make a third attack at the model you have already hit twice, move all models within 2" of it 2" directly toward it and lay a 3" AOE on top with a POW 12 damage to all under the AOE. Pretty awesome.
Axiara Wraithblade is the tactical solo. She is hard to hit, has good ARM for a satyxis, tough, fast at SPD 7, has a hand cannon (RNG 12 POW 12), and two initial attacks, one of which is a magical weapon master attack at P+S 13. Her claim to fame is her battleplans. She has three of them and can use one any time during her activation. They seem to be limited to friendly faction living models/units with a range of 5. She can give dodge with Serpents Grace. She can give Prowl with sneak, or the one I see me using the most is Special Orders (reposition 3"). She also gives living friendly faction models tactician, meaning they can draw line of sight and move through each others bases while in her command range. Her magic weapon gives her incorporeal when she kills a living or undead model.
I have talked about the iron mongers before. Really tough, offensive mechanics. They will hang around Skarre and the kraken serving as mechanics and sucker targets. In a pinch they can do some real damage to constructs as they are pseudo weapon masters with dismantle.
One of the changes that came through the CID was the theme benefit of pathfinder for all satyxis, that was changed to dodge for solos because the satyxis sea witch could already give pathfinder with one of her spells. Though to be fair, Axiara already has dodge and can give out dodge. The sea witch can also give Red Tide (overtake) and whipping winds (+2 DEF against ranged attack rolls and immune to blast damage).
This seems like a really good fast scenario jamming list, or a really good assassination list. Most of your units have critical knockdown on most of their weapons. They also have back lash on most of their weapons, which when they damage a warjack, the warcaster controlling it takes 1 damage. There are a lot of sources of that damage along with a legitimate ranged threat from the Kraken and Skarre herself. This theme looks like a lot of fun to play especially with Skarre 3.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 30, 2018 11:53:25 GMT
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - Slaughter Fleet Raiders
Slaughter fleet raiders is the living non-satyxis pirate theme. In the fluff, they are the black ogrun and blighted troll kin shock troopers that do mainland raids to sow terror and break morale of enemies. They are usually used for overwhelming odds or suicide missions as Slaughterborn keeps surviving things he shouldn't. The theme gives all warjacks gang fighter and extends your deployment zone by 2". This is supposed to compensate for not using more elite troops like satyxis or banes. And I personally thing, that with a lot of the new options, it really does.
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - Satyxis Blood Priestess - Kharybdis - Leviathan General Gerlack Slaughterborn Axiara Wraithblade Aiakos, Scourge of Meredius - Stalker x 2 Gorman Di Wulfe Black Ogrun Ironmongers Bloodgorgers + Jussicka Bloodtongue Black Ogrun Smog Belchers
I included some entries that have not been released yet, but I really like this list on paper. Axiara Wraithblade is a weapon master combat solo with an interesting defensive mechanism of turning herself incorporeal after killing a living or undead model. She also has battle plans she can pass out including reposition 3" to a living unit. I see me giving this to the smog belchers and allowing them to lay out their cloud wall with their RAT 6 shots and reposition behind the clouds. Alternatively, you could give them prowl with her and just stay in the clouds now with stealth. Most things that ignore clouds also ignore stealth so it doesn't really matter which you use. Distance can be a good defensive mechanism however.
The black ogrun Smog Belchers are a 5 man multiwound unit with tough and really good ranged weapons in my opinion. They are surprisingly RAT 6, which is pretty high for a group like this. Their weapon range is legit at 12, AOE 3, POW 13 and magical. It also has arcing fire and the choking ash special rule that if you directly hit, living warrior models hit cannot run or charge for one round unless they can ignore gas effects. That can really hamper up your opponents jamming units or deny the charge into your vanguard of bloodgorgers. Each time they make a ranged attack, you center a 3" cloud effect on the model doing the shooting. That is what I was referring to above with the different synergies that Axiara brings with them.
Kharybdis is now part of the slaughter fleet raiders theme. You may ask, why isn't he under Aiakos for the bond benefit? Well, prowl wasn't as important as getting access to guided fire and his fully boosted to hit crit blind spray. At least for how I want to play it. Kharybdis came through the CID very positively with a point discount, gunfighter, and I think the acid cloud works better as it is no longer a special action. Its 4" reach means you will most likely be triggering gang fighter with the front line of bloodgorgers or leaping Aiakos and his stalkers.
Anyways, Aiakos's job in this list is to get behind enemy lines and trigger gang fighter with his pair of stalkers. He can make them faster with escort and they are all a pain to hit and kill and take dedicated resources above their pay grade to remove. Basically something that can boost hits can get it done, maybe.
Gorman di-wulf is in the list to help with random debuffs or just add to the cloud wall that the black ogrun can lay down. Against an infantry heavy list, the acid bomb makes great infantry clearing as you don't have to hit to get the full POW 12 and corrosion effects.
The bloodgorgers received a nice boost from CID with a MAT increase to 7. Unyeilding was also upgraded to be a straight up +2 ARM vs melee attacks. I really prefer the rule this way is it is much simpler to determine when it is in effect, i.e., all the time vs melee. Jussicka has been released and is the attachment to the bloodgorgers (or any blighted trollkin unit). She has the standard bloodthirst ability all blighted trolls have (+2" movement when charging living models). She grants vengeance to her unit, a 3" move and free attack during your maintenance phase if one or more guys were damaged during the last round. She brings back no sleeping on the job so no knocking down any blighted trollkin in her command range including herself, and probably Gerlack too. She has overtake, gives the unit she is attached to relentless charge (pathfinder while charging) and has unyielding. Her stats are just below Slaughterbornes at SPD 5, MAT 7, RAT 6, DEF 12 and ARM 17 with 5 wounds. She is by no means invincible, but brings a lot to the table for the unit as vengeance and no knock downs is really good. She has a blunderbuss (RNG 8 POW 12 gun) and two hand weapons (RNG 1 P+S 12). Overall a solid addition to combat solos in the list.
Black Ogrun Iron mongers make great sucker targets as they will be close to Skarre for repairing and the blood priestess gives Skarre sucker. There is no other ranged defense in this list as the cloud wall will not protect Skarre on her huge base. So suckering to up to 3 multiwound tough models that you can replace as long as one survives with your reinforcement ability sounds really good to me. It effectively makes you immune to shooting at the cost of your mechanics unless your opponent brings ALOT of guns.
The game plan here is to jam with blood gorgers who are effectively SPD 6 from dash and with the 2" extra deployment can get up the field quite quickly. Then use the warjacks on the jammed units or models to trigger gang fighter while the Aiakos module flanks looking to get behind enemy lines to do the same, only to more important targets. All the while, the leviathan and Skarre put down some nice ranged support. Keep in mind Skarre's cannons have shadow fire which means you can effectively remove line of sight blocking models if you hit them first with the cannons, opening up line of sight for your leviathan. This list looks like a lot of fun to play and I think it will do well for attrition or assassination.
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