unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Feb 2, 2018 11:33:32 GMT
Take a look at Black industries Denny2 with Aiakos1 running a couple of jacks. They still benefit from Carapace, they can be slingshot around with Hellmouth, still benefit from Curse of shadows, get +2 SPD from escort and don't drain Denny's precious focus which is a big deal and she's a real focus-hog.
-und_ed
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Post by gedditoffme on Feb 2, 2018 20:43:33 GMT
I love that Denny2 Black Industries list. Am concerned about the cephalyx drudges: since they are about the only thing opponents can shoot reliably they will probably die quickly. I know that's their job, but I'd consider swapping for another overlord unit and a solo or 2xnecrotechs to deny any shooting targets.
Is Denny2 a pure assassination caster? There might be a double-alpha attrition play into another list with heavies: charge to kill 2-3 then feat defensively to go again. But I can't see it winning a general attrition game otherwise, nor her spells supporting attrition play. Is the whole game get nightmare and deathjack within 10" of caster and incorporeal them through the enemy?
If so, it is exciting, since I'm not sure there are any other pure assassination casters around in Mk3.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Feb 3, 2018 2:49:22 GMT
I love that Denny2 Black Industries list. Am concerned about the cephalyx drudges: since they are about the only thing opponents can shoot reliably they will probably die quickly. I know that's their job, but I'd consider swapping for another overlord unit and a solo or 2xnecrotechs to deny any shooting targets. Is Denny2 a pure assassination caster? There might be a double-alpha attrition play into another list with heavies: charge to kill 2-3 then feat defensively to go again. But I can't see it winning a general attrition game otherwise, nor her spells supporting attrition play. Is the whole game get nightmare and deathjack within 10" of caster and incorporeal them through the enemy? If so, it is exciting, since I'm not sure there are any other pure assassination casters around in Mk3. Her scenario game is pretty strong as well. Incorporeal Heavies are great at taking Zones, & she has a ton of movement shenanigans to pull models out of zones without killing them. The Attrition game has been very hit or miss in my experience. While there are some lists you can Attrition down no problem with hard hitting Heavies and an infantry clearing spell lists, there are others that just have all the right tools to make your life miserable. I’ve been winning most of my games by going hard on scenario & either riding that to a win or assassinating my opponent once they commit their caster to try and even the scenario score. Holding onto the feat until an assassination presents itself has rarely the correct thing to do in my experience.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 5, 2018 11:54:10 GMT
My opinion is that Deneghra has a strong scenario game as well. The feat does have multiple uses and the ability to move enemy models with hellmouth and her melee weapon let her take zones pretty easily short of dealing with colossals.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 5, 2018 15:28:05 GMT
Wraith Witch Deneghra - Scourge of the Broken Coast
Some new models are hitting the streets in the next few months from the Black Fleet CID including a model I included in the list below, because I really want to proxy the beejeezus out of it because I think it is that good. Withershadow are probably still better, but its heads and tails above a skarlock, and that is the Satyxis Blood Priestess. Oh, they added Barathrum to the Scourge lists now as a choice any caster can take. Definitely a priority pick as a discount beater. The Scourge theme has changed with its benefits. You still get a satyxis blood witch unit allowed to ambush, but now instead of satyxis all gaining pathfinder, now they all gain dodge. Definitely a downgrade, but I guess that was intentional as, admittedly, pathfinder on your entire army is just too good of an add on.
Wraith Witch Deneghra - Satyxis Blood Witch - Barathrum - Inflictor - Nightmare - Ripjaw - Deathripper Satyxis Raider Captain Satyxis Blood Witches + Hag Satyxis Gun Slingers Satyxis Raiders + Sea Witch
The Blood Priestess has some decent stats, better than one would expect for a warcaster support solo. SPD 6, MAT 7, DEF 14, ARM 12 and 5 boxes. She has innate stealth and two initial melee attacks, one of which is her sacral blade, at P+S 13 and magical. Not bad. The other is horns with critical knockdown. She allows you to upkeep a spell for free and gives your warcaster sucker! Sucker is a better and worse version of sacrificial pawn. It is limited to warrior models and it is not optional. If you are directly hit by a ranged attack, pick a non-incorporeal friendly warrior model within 3" to be directly hit instead. She also has three different attacks with her blade. The first is dispel that when this weapon hits a model/unit, upkeep spells and animi on that model/unit immediately expire. That is an entire unit, doesn't have to be an enemy, and before damage is dealt. Another is distillation, where you kill a living enemy model and heal your warcaster for D3+3 pts. Probably better for the Skarres. The last is rites of blood which is basically battle wizard, where you kill a living model and you can spell slave something. Though you use Deneghra's focus stat as the base attack number, which is how spell slave used to work, now everything has a magic ability score. Different.
Barathrum is Terminus's character jack that is now available to anyone in this theme. Fluff wise, I guess Terminus was in charge of the black fleet (now Skarre is, but terminus in in charge of her) and it has feedback on his fists, so rules wise he fits in. That's right, against a warmachine army, you can really ding up a caster with all the feedback in the list. Barathrum hits hard enough with P+S 17 to put down most heavies. He just doesn't get his bond of unyielding when used with another warcaster. Aside from that 15 points is really good for a SPD 6, MAT 8, DEF 13, ARM 18, 3 initial melee attacks, advance deploying heavy warjack. It also has countercharge and Dig In as a special action. It also has an ability called drag below that allows it to remove something from play, do a full advance and dig in all in one action.
I brought an inflictor for shield guard, but probably isn't necessary with Sucker! Though I would rather send the shots to an ARM 19 warjack than my support solos, but that is just me.
Nightmare rounds out the heavies in my battlegroup as an expensive beater that can really deliver itself and ignores terrain. It is super accurate and hits very hard against its prey target.
The satyxis raider captain received tough from the CID. That is especially good since she gives all satyxis in her command area, including herself, no sleeping on the job. That is no knockdown folks. So as long as you can make those tough rolls, she stays. She gives herself pathfinder on charges, can sprint away if she kills something in combat and has really good melee stats. She also has auto knockdown on all of her melee attacks. The lacerator is a 2" reach P+S 9 weapon master, magical and chain weapon attack. Horns are only P+S 8, but she is a facilitator, to do some feedback with her lacerator, knock it down and set up an assassination. Or neuter a non-reach model for a turn. Really good solo that can be taken free in theme.
The satyxis blood witches have changed as well in the CID. They have kept gang, which really helps them eat infantry. They still have three different attacks with their P+S 10 magical blood razors. The first is blood shadow, which when they box a living or undead model, they can gain incorporeal for a turn, protecting them from reprisal from most sources. Deathstrike, which allows you to hit another model after killing something with the power equal to the STR of the thing you just killed. Again, has to be a living or undead model. No to hit roll necessary, so pretty great at sniping out high defense, low ARM unit guys. They also gained grievous wounds as an attack type. Removing tough or not allowing something to heal can be a big deal. Great unit to annoy your opponent with ambush.
The gunslingers picked up a point of RAT to 7 and their shots changed a but in the CID. They have black penny, ignoring in melee combat penalties while shooting, great for clearing something off something else. Feedback, which against a debuffed warjack, they can add to pinging up the opposing warcaster. And Heart Seeker, gain an additional die on damage rolls and discard the lowest die. That allows for some dice spiking.
So overall, Deneghra brings debuffs, can slow down the enemy and can allow your models to get to places they shouldn't, i.e., moving through your opponents stuff. She can play a strong scenario game and I think Satyxis have always been good at that. They are fast enough to get across the board and lock slower groups out of scenario, are great at cleaning up infantry with high accuracy, and on a charge can damage heavier targets. They can even help set up for assassination through feedback, softening up the warcaster to ensure that a heavy can get it done. Deneghra appreciates the attachment because who doesn't like a free upkeep and with sucker! is pretty much immune to any type of ranged assassination.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 6, 2018 17:37:39 GMT
Wraith Witch Deneghra - Slaughter Fleet Raiders
Slaughter Fleet Raiders is the theme I am really excited to try Wraith Witch Deneghra out in. With her feat it will be pretty trivial to trigger gang fighter with some grunt and a pair of warjacks. The theme gives gang fighter to all of your warjacks. That is +2 to hit and damage for the warjack if its target is also engaged with a friendly faction warrior model. Between her feat and curse of shadows, Deneghra can allow a select group to bypass screening units and move into key targets or the opposing warcaster for a relatively accurate assassination attempt. Deneghra can even further the odds by charging through first and debuffing the target with breath stealer and/or shadow step and setting things up with dark banishing on her weapon. The other theme bonus is a 2" deployment zone increase which helps your slow medium based infantry get up the field faster. That is until we get some of the new releases in March/April timeframe like the Sharde pirates. I think I am most excited for the Ogrun Ironmongers. They look great.
Wraith Witch Deneghra - Kharybdis - Nightmare - Ripjaw x 2 Aiakos Scourge of Meredius - Stalker x 2 General Gerlak Slaughterborn The Devils Shadow Mutineers Black Ogrun Boarding Party
Kharybdis is now available in this theme to any caster and he got a really nice makeover with the recent Black Fleet CID in the form of a 2 point cost reduction, gunfighter, and the ability to do the cloud any time during its activation. So now it has all the abilities of a crab jack, 4" reach, MAT 7, RAT 6, 4" reach chain weapon open fists at P+S 16 each, an 8" spray that it can now do from melee with critical blind. All you miss out on is Aiakos's bond with prowl, though technically you could assigned it to the journeyman Aiakos and give Deneghra the stalkers. Problem solved.
Aiakos Jr did not change with the CID and is still very solid choice and is the only choice for warjack support in this theme until the iron mongers are released. He is SPD 6 with a 5" leap, MAT 6, RAT 5, DEF 14, ARM 14 and innate stealth. He has a harpoon that can drag small based models with a RNG of 6, though you have to damage the target to drag, luckily he can boost. His focus stat of 4 can run 2 warjacks pretty well. He has a threat range increaser with Escort and can give grivious wounds to his battlegroup. A really nice assassination piece in combination with things like stalkers, though Kharybdis would be another fine choice as he would fix its problem of being a touch slow.
Gerlak had some adjustments in the CID and gained weapon master, though he did lose finisher. I will take weapon master any day. With overtake, berserk and weapon master, he will really maintain his pac man status of being able to chomp through a poorly spaced unit. Between him and the bloodgorgers that got a small MAT increase to 7 (significant for them), they really are great infantry clearers. On a charge, Gerlak is a threat to anything. Oh, he gained grievous wounds on his axe, did he have that before? Icing on the cake.
Black Ogruns has some adjustments too and lost a point of MAT but gained gang. +2 to hit and damage if their target is engaged with at least two of them, and after a drag from your combined range attack harpoon, you probably will be with 2-3 of them. That turns into a MAT 8, P+S 15 free attack. Not bad for their cost.
So the plan here is to set up and execute assassination with slaughter fleet raiders utilizing Deneghra's toolbox to get 1-2 warjacks and 1-2 grunts onto your prime target and hit them with very accurate and hard hitting attacks. A lot of Cryx jacks have shenanigans like leaping stalkers or 4" reach kharybdis to help with this. The bloodgorgers and mutineers can play a decent scenario game as well as a full unit of medium based tough models can be a pain to remove if your opponent is not packing grievous wounds or mortality or something.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 7, 2018 14:34:20 GMT
First post is updated with the links to Wraith Witch Deneghra's stuff. That is it until Skarre 3 drops.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 22, 2018 17:29:49 GMT
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - Ghost Fleet
Skarre got a promotion and a ghostly flying half a ship. Personally I love the model as the rotten ghost ship with a wave of souls carrying it across the battle field looks pretty awesome to me. I would be very interested to see just how she got her ship so maybe they will talk about it in the new No Quarter coming next week? She comes across as a really good support caster that you have to be very careful with because she is super fast and on a huge base, just begging to be over extended and shot to death.
Her stats are pretty good at SPD 7, MAT 7, RAT 6, DEF 12 (not so good) and ARM 19 with CMD 10 and FOC 7. She has three ranged weapons and 4 melee weapons with the dual attack rule allowing her to make both ranged and melee attacks as initial attacks and it can make ranged attacks while in melee. Very powerful rule for her toolset.
Her melee weapons are the Ram (with the ship) at RNG 1 P+S 14 (magical) and 3 cutlasses at RNG 0.5 at P+S 9 (to signify the crew fighting at the sides of the ship). The cutlasses have a rule called independent attack that allows them to make their attacks before the ship does its normal movement. The Ram can ram something, knocking it down and pushing it 1" away allowing you to follow up in your big ghost ship, extending your threat range even further.
Her ranged weapons are a hand cannon not delineated to a field of fire (remember battle engines have Left and Right fields of fire that you have to be careful of facing and certain left weapons can only target left field of fire while right weapons can target right field of fire). Hand cannon can shoot anywhere in the front arc. It is RNG 12 and POW 12. Each cannon has their own field of fire (one in the right and one in the left), have a range of 12, AOE 3, POW 14 and have shadow fire. Shadow fire lets you ignore the model hit by the weapon for LOS purposes. Oh, you are hiding behind that colossal enemy warcaster? Now I can see you!
She is repairable like a battle engine or construct. She also supports living units with her reinforcements ability allowing her to return D3 small or medium based living faction grunts to play during your maintenance phase with 1 unmarked damage box. They have to be placed in your command range and within 3" of another model of their unit. They have to forfeit combat actions the turn they are returned to play, meaning they can still move.
Her spell list is really good and different for Cryx, giving her a unique place among our casters. Like Asphyxious 3, she seems to be more of a buff caster than a debuff caster. But like any caster with a really good spell list, you have to pick and choose what you want to cast every turn because even at 7 focus, she is going to be strapped to play at her fullest potential. And she only has 1 upkeep spell and 4 self spells and no offensive attack spells (first caster in cryx for that). This means she has absolutely no spells that can be spell slaved or necromancied because, the last time I checked, those abilities restricted any range of self or control area spells from being used.
Her first spell is Dark Waves with a cost of 1 and range of self. When the spell caster ends its normal movement, choose one other non-huge based friendly faction model that you moved within 2" of. You may place that model completely within 2" of its current location. This can only target each model once per turn. As a clarification, this spell can only be cast once per activation probably because of the verbage saying that the spell expires when you move the model. Probably not a bad idea first turn trying to vie for position for scenario, or get a heavy hitter like deathjack up the field faster.
Dash is a cost of 2 self centered, control area of effect spell that gives the spellcaster and friendly faction warrior models activating in your control range +1 SPD. Additionally, the warrior models gain parry. Awesome threat range increaser for our normally fast units. Or combine this with Darragh Wrathe's death ride in Dark Host for some really fast bane warriors. Dash + dark waves + darragh could move a choice bane warrior running 16" up the field while the rest "only" go 14".
Deceleration is another self only control area spell costs 3 and gives +2 ARM vs Ranged and Magical attack damage rolls to all friendly faction models in her control area. It is her only defensive spell to protect herself from being shot off the table and it is expensive to cast every round with everything else she wants to do. The best turn for this spell is the best turns for the movement enhancer spells so it makes your first two turns really tight. In fact, it might even be worth while to feat early just to get some extra spells out the first turn for a bit of damage on yourself.
Draconic Blessing is Skarre's only upkeep spell and its a really nice one. Target friendly faction model/unit gains +2 STR and immunity to fire. Cryx units and models hate fire, and this says FU to some prominent lists like Storm of the North with fire eaters and a hooch hauler or Kallus 2 or Malekus or any of the Feoras or most Legion warbeasts. Situational to be sure with the immunity, but still, +2 strength is welcome to any of our units, especially in the normally pillow fisted lists like scourge of the broken coast or ghost fleet or slaughter fleet raiders.
Her last spell is guided fire, and as this is a nice big ranged support spell, is a first for Cryx. It gives your battlegroup models in your control range boosted ranged attack rolls. Your defiler arc node with fully boosted sprays? Any of our colossals, the leviathan, any of the crab jacks really, love this spell. Herself especially with her three ranged attacks which are already semi-accurate at RAT 6 (for Cryx) wants to cast this every round she is shooting.
Her feat allows her to suffer 1 damage to cast a spell instead of spending focus that activation. Each spell can be cast once as a result. There are other feats like that like Kreoss three that just wipe out all spells in the area and allow him to recast all his upkeeps for free. Or one of the Vayls can also do this, casting each spell for free. But it makes for an exceptionally dangerous turn allowing you full focus to spend on boosting damage or giving focus out to jacks or heaven forbid, keeping some for overcharging the power field. Its a good thing she is repairable and she has like 26 boxes.
So what does Skarre want? I see her being too focus strapped to really run anything but ranged warjacks. Thankfully powerup is a thing which helps but she wants some support to help with focus, or a free upkeep. She wants to get draconic blessing out fast and upkeep it and she wants to get her army up the field fast so dash is probably getting cast first turn. You are already down 4 focus, allowing either deceleration or some dark waves depending on the match up. Or camping...if you have to. I know its smart, man I am going to get her killed so often. Skarre needs something to protect her otherwise. Shield guards are great with the inflictor, a bokur, or whatever else you may have access to in the theme. She can do work but she is going to want some strong infantry she can buff as +1 speed and +2 STR is a pretty good force multiplier.
Skarre Admiral of the Black Fleet - Leviathan - Nightwretch - Defiler - Inflictor Captain Rengrave Hellslinger Phantom Pistol Wraith x 2 Revenant Crew (max) + 2 riflemen Blackbane's Ghost Raiders Black Ogrun Iron Mongers Revenant Cannon Crew
Right away, I see the cannon crew being kind of dead weight as they are going to struggle to keep up, but their range was increased and they do get boosted attack rolls against living models and help with recursion. With dash, they may be able to run the first turn and get into a good position. Oh, they have ghost shot now too so they ignore line of sight. If you can get them close enough, they can do some work against prime hidden targets.
Black Ogrun Iron Mongers are just something I want to take with Skarre 3 every chance I get. Its a 3-man unit that can repair, have 5 wounds each and have tough. She can refill the unit (as long as one survives) with her reinforcements and they are pseudo weapon masters against constructs with dismantle. All for 6 points. Pretty good in my opinion.
Skarre's reinforcements ability only works with living units so none of the revenant crew or ghost pirates can be affected, but with Dash, they can have some ridiculous threat ranges (as black bane's already have apparition and SPD 6, and can refill their own numbers with killing enemy living models. The revenant crew are already one of the best attrition units in the game returning D3 (+1 in this theme) models back every round as long as they were not removed from play. Skarre can help them hit harder with draconic blessing and make them immune to fire, all the while getting a self buff from gang for accuracy and damage. Skarre cannot help them with accuracy aside from that.
So whats the game plan? Shoot it to death with your ranged jacks and solos. You have an extremely fast made faster set of units. It should be relatively easy to jam an opponent out of scenario while you set back and score, forcing your opponent to deal with recurring, hard to hit, pirates all while being pelted by boosted ranged attacks every round.
Overall, I would rather have more of a living infantry base for Skarre to use her tool kit with, but the natural speed and attrition engine of ghost fleet fits well with her tool kit as she can increase their damage output and speed. As long as she can protect herself and take out threats to her naturally high armor, she should be okay.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 23, 2018 9:27:06 GMT
Your 2 arc nodes together are almost another Leviathan and you don't have anything useful to arc anyway. If you have a second crab jack, I would definitely include it.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 23, 2018 10:41:19 GMT
I was certainly considering that, after I made the list, I looked at her spell list a lot closer and other than getting a boosted ranged attack from each one, and cycling draconic blessing, there is no real use for arc nodes. She wants ranged jacks, hard hitting infantry or something like a shield guard. Maybe I will drop one for a bokur and some random 2 point solo.
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Post by gedditoffme on Mar 23, 2018 11:28:51 GMT
That’s a great write up of skarr3 as a single piece, but got to confess I’m not convinced ghost fleet is a great match for her. I’m holding out for slaughter fleet, dark host or black Industries:)
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Post by tiberius on Mar 23, 2018 11:54:58 GMT
I agree gedditoffme, she really wants slaughter fleet, scourge of the broken coast or black industries. Though anyone can use and make dark host work, as that theme is pretty caster independent. Faster banes is always a good thing. I will get infernal machines up next.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 23, 2018 12:17:28 GMT
Skarre Admiral of the Black Fleet - Infernal Machines
Our infernal machines theme, I personally believe, is not a very good fit with Skarre 3. With her tool kit she really prefers fast and accurate, or at least accurate and self sufficient units of the living variety. There are no units in this theme available for Skarre that are compatible with her reinforcements ability. She can work with others and infernal machines does have access to a lot of shield guards (brutes) and really fast accurate troops (soul hunters). Anyhow, infernal machines gives your warjacks hyperaggressive (which does not affect colossals because they cannot make out of activation movements), and it gives a unit of mechanithralls ambush, which would defeat the entire purpose of bringing them, a lot of cheap shield guards. What infernal machines does do is give access to a lot of focus and casting support like the withershadow combine and war witch sirens. Both things that Skarre really wants.
Skarre Admiral of the Black Fleet - The withershadow Combine - Sepulcher Aiakos, Scourge of Meredius - Stalker Necrotech x 2 Warwitch Siren x 2 Machine Wraith Necrosurgeon and Stitch Thralls Mechanithralls + 2 Brutes Soul Hunters
I went with a mechanithrall recursion boat with the necrosurgeon and sepulcher. Skarre can make the sepulcher sing with all its ranged weapons and between her and it will lay down a really withering barrage at 10-12" range. Your opponents (short of cygnar anti-infantry groups) should have trouble mowing through a field of mechanithralls and brutes to get to the colossal or skarre. With the ability to return up to 6 a round, or 3 and a brute, you can really maintain field presence, all the while removing threatening pieces.
Skarre can make the mechanithralls faster and can help increase armor for the brutes and sepulcher against ranged and magic attacks. I also included a pair of necrotechs to keep the sepulcher and skarre herself alive.
The warwitch sirens will mostly just feed the sepulcher focus, but are good at clearing with their Magic ability 6 venom sprays that can kill most single wound infantry with continuous corrosion or just the POW 10 spray. Don't forget about their seduction ability in a pinch. Really versatile and useful solo.
Aiakos and the stalker make a good mobile assassination pair. They both are naturally fast, and with dash affecting Aiakos, escort affecting the stalker, and both capable of leaping 5" after their movement, they can get to pretty much anywhere they want to be. The stalker has a pair of P+S 12 grievous wound attacks and is capable of buying more as Aiakos can fuel it every round. In a pinch, you could put draconic blessing on the stalker if you really want something to die. Though you get more bang for your buck putting that on the soul hunters in my opinion.
Soul hunters are SPD 9, 2" melee reach (with two additional attacks including the mount attack) MAT 6 + boosted cavalry attack on the charge. They are infantry blending machines and with a strength buff, can even threaten harder targets. Reposition 5" allows them to either push deeper after turning incorporeal with a soul, or repositioning back to block charges and get a second charge if possible. A really good unit that you should have little problem getting an alpha strike with.
The withershadow combine is a toolbox of usefulness for Skarre...except for the spell slave part because Skarre has no viable spells for spell slave. She does appreciate the free upkeep of draconic blessing and the reroll is very helpful. Handing out magic weapons to the mechanithralls is useful in a pinch but highly situational. And they are a unit capable of charging, shooting magic attacks, or scoring the circle zones if needed.
So what is the plan here? Again, using ultra accurate ranged attacks to cripple and kill your opponent while jamming with mechanithralls and soul hunters. Attrition should be good with the necrosurgeon and the sepulcher pumping out body blockers and shield guards. Your caster and colossal should weather any retaliation with deceleration and necrotechs. This is probably Skarre's least favorite theme, but she can make it work, if nothing else, just by being awesome.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 23, 2018 12:27:24 GMT
Troopers, solos, and non–battle engine warcasters are warriors. Cavalry most definitely counts as warrior models.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Mar 23, 2018 13:20:02 GMT
Just a point of order, Skarre3 can’t move multiple models with multiple casts of dark waters. Can only cast once and move one, just like slip stream.
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