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Post by blightbuddy on Oct 5, 2017 17:31:54 GMT
Haha, just wait until we can take the Dracodile in theme...
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Post by copperflame on Oct 5, 2017 17:48:56 GMT
Yea - I would love suggestions on how to really leverage Minions in theme. I really want to run WE&Sj with S&R2 but I don't want to give up BB. Then again, I saw a of mention Kryssa + BB + Croaks that perked my ears already.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 5, 2017 19:06:35 GMT
Yea - I would love suggestions on how to really leverage Minions in theme. I really want to run WE&Sj with S&R2 but I don't want to give up BB. Then again, I saw a of mention Kryssa + BB + Croaks that perked my ears already. If you're talking about what Trane said in my tactica article. It's not as crazy as you might be imagining. Oil will boost the damage of the BB shot + blast. It will boost Kryssa's Howling Flames damage and the fire roll next turn. It will not change any melee damage rolls; her feat only gives continuous fire. Not actual fire damage. Kryssa + BB in Primal terrors means Warspears are hitting at Pow 20 damage rolls on both the throw and the charge. (13 + 2 prey + 2 BB aura + 3 feat). Tactical Supremacy also means that, in theory, warspears can "shoot" something and then back away to be 11" from their target. That's just outside of speed 5 charge range. Something I was thinking of testing.
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Post by copperflame on Oct 6, 2017 14:00:55 GMT
Ahhh! Thanks. I may try that as well... I like that idea. I immediately went to Thag1 for Primal Terrors but I was lamenting that decision because Thag1 is the only place I truly love Hex Hunters and Oracles. Actually... the more I think about Kryssa + BB + Warspears... the more I like it.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 18, 2017 13:34:37 GMT
So... little bit of doom and gloom.
I still have not gotten a real game with Ravens yet. I know, I am disappointment to country. But it's hard to even want to play it since the game seems to be sticking to some rather poor decisions. Black Industry being the new wtf? Cryx getting another CID when the majority of hordes is sorely under the curve. It's just getting more and more difficult to find a desire to play the game. And that's just sickening to me. I should not be so depressed by the state of the game that it ruins the basic idea of playing. I own Cryx. We don't really have any Cryx players to be afraid of (newer players with smaller collections). So it's really no reason to be upset. But legit depression makes simple things seem impossible.
But I digress.
What I have done is try to make a working Rhyas list. I ended up getting 2 small point games (35) played at the store the last 2 weeks. I wanted to do something random that I don't normally play. I also made sure to play out of theme just to get a better baseline idea. It ended up being pretty brutal. Even though Rhyas does absolutely nothing but look scary. Positive remarks. 2 Warlord attacks per model is pretty crazy. I know a reaper is not the hardest to kill but a single warlord under feat dropped a pristine one. Hellmouths under feat really help the intrinsic bad luck I have when it comes to single meaningful attacks. (I've had more double ones on buffed weapon master attacks than anywhere else in the game.) Teleporting cavalry is interesting and I then repo'd into the back line to tie up things even more. So thumbs up on those things. In a 75pt game I set up at home the throne is disgusting. Had it hit and teleport, and continue killing 8 other infantry models.
However, I personally hate the entire list and every game I played with it (4 including the tests set up at home). Rhyas does nothing. Now, I know she is a great assassin caster and yada yada. But turn by turn she does almost nothing. Dash is a great spell that is god awful hamstrung by her short ctrl range and her innate high speed. She ends up running away from the things that need the buff. Occultation has to stay on herself. I can't imagine why she herself does not have stealth but Thyra does (who is arguably better in ever single regard). Raport is not worth it on any of the 1-2 beasts she wants to take. It's not worth the fury loss to buff a seraph of a protector. Zuriel already has the stats close enough and the 1 rat is not going to make him a good warbeast all of a sudden. It's just a joke. She has to run up into the middle of the most dangerous range of the enemy army to just affect a few models with her feat that is god awful in design. You have to activate IN ctrl and STAY in ctrl if you want to get the bonuses. It really should just read "this model" and thrash the inept attempt to do anything more than that.
That being said. I never had Rhyas loose. Both small point games I practically slaughtered the opponent hands down. Against Cryx I cleanly swept everything but the satyxis off the table. Against Cygnar (granted it was nemo 1. But I informed him I'd be playing Rhyas before he chose anything so I don't know what his intention was.) I bullied him well out of scenario and easily removed the BG jacks then killed Jakes to make the ironclad inert. So in small point games she is terrifying. The larger point games at home I set up against Thyra in HoV'R'Us theme. Thyra had better board security, better spells, and better jacks. With Rhyas' feat I was able to throw Zuriel around the building and get to thyra. Boosting attacks and damage from the 2 remaining initals I ended up leaving Thyra on 1 box. I think by averages she should have had 4 or something. But, to get Zuriel in ctrl range to make the jump after the first hit, I had Rhyas way up the field. She was camping and had her protector body blocking. But Thyra's feat and BoM's side step put him into Rhyas hitting dice +6. 2 transfers nearly mulched the protector and Zuriel (Seraph had maxed fury to kill ONE idrian UA model. crap beast...) The last hit rolled a 9 for 15 points of damage. Clearly BoM is a far better character than Zuriel could ever wish to be. He effectively killed Rhyas 3 times over. From that point however Rhyas parry'd away and cowered in a corner. A warlord had now been standing on a safe flag for 3 turns. It was impossible for Thyra to win on Scenario. But I hated that game. I hated that I felt so freaking useless. There was nothing I could do but wait. When I finally got a chance to go in I couldn't get one meaningful kill. Pow 10 WM are ok. But being dice off 9 and -2 to hit makes them practically ineffective. The warlords ended up doing 4 damage after decap on the charge. It was just absolutely disappointing. I'm the type to despise "super solo" casters. If the caster doesn't support the army well then I don't feel like I'm playing an effective game. Rhyas is by far the least effective caster I've ever played in that respect. Thyra is leaps and bounds better. She has the best application of carnage in the game with the Gates move happening at the end of the turn. So a to-hit buff, damage buff, movement feat, control spell, defense spell. She's got one of everything and everything is super useful. And stealth! For herself, no resources needed. Rhyas has crit-decap that happens 1 in 16 time or something like that. wooo~
Just as a note, the above was game 4. Game 3 was much more even. Thyra ended up tearing a ton of models up and with carnage and HoV the jacks never missed. It was pretty even until Rhyas finally downed all the jacks. I had made sure to ignore and tie up the zealots with raptors, but not kill. While I picked off all the idrians. So I was able to force where HoV was gained and made sure that jack couldn't reach anything. But game 4 added the throne and it was immediately apparent Thyra was doomed. It ate nearly all the zealots, including the UA, in one turn.
But again, I can't say she is inept. I won. I know how and why. I can reliably do it again and again. But I've never hated a caster like this before. I want to make her work. I know she can be terrifying and really solid by herself. It's just difficult to play something I know is supposed to be the leading keystone piece of an army that has no ability to fill that role.
I hope to try and see about using the twins. So I can at least fire off the little witch and maybe have her kill something worth committing to. then watch her die horribly. Rinse and repeat.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Oct 18, 2017 14:15:04 GMT
Try using Saeryn 1 if you want something truly depressing.
At least Rhyas does something, and has an interesting feat. Saeryn just feats to tank and then glares at the enemy hoping her b1tch-stare will do something.
Then move on to the twins, discover the most fun caster(s) in Legion, and never look back.
-und_ed
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 18, 2017 14:51:19 GMT
Rapport is not worth it on any of the 1-2 beasts she wants to take. It's not worth the fury loss to buff a seraph of a protector. Zuriel already has the stats close enough and the 1 rat is not going to make him a good warbeast all of a sudden. I'm going to stop you for a second. Rapport offers extended control range. Even if you aren't buffing the stats, her control range for that beast is now 20". Slingshot that bad boy on her feat turn and have him surprise assassinate the enemy warlock/warcaster. Or, let him take care of some stuff on the other side of the battlefield while she supports the rest of her army with her smaller control range on the other side. Carniveans get +2 to both mat and rat. Ravagores gets +3 to mat and +1 to rat. Scytheans gets +2 to mat Angelius gets +2 to mat. Neraphs gets +1 to mat (and absolutely LOVES the extra melee attack). Zuriel only gets +1 mat. Azreal gets +1 mat and rat (only available through children, so doesn't work for ravens. But, since you have warlords, you might like CotD) Proteus gets +1 mat (only no theme) Typhon gets +1 mat and rat (only no theme).
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Post by copperflame on Oct 18, 2017 14:54:51 GMT
I think my biggest issue right now - is the fact that my Meta is really low right now. The FLGS has stopped doing any PP events. The owner feels very wronged when PP made the transition to get rid of Press Gangers without so much as a email about the situation. He also was not happy with the shift of responsibilities to him/his store to run events without any support or communication. Lastly - he was a Merc player and felt that PP totally pulled a GW with MK3. The state that Mercs were/are in, he felt that PP really crapped on him.
So... I'm having a hard time finding people to just roll dice with. I've contemplated being more of a leader locally but I already do so with my other hobbies (martial arts, d&d, etc.). But that is neither here nor there - I'm oversharing as it is.
For Rhyas - I always use her as 'hard mode'. I like her but with her lacking native stealth (and lacking pathfinder previously) coupled with a limited spell list, I'm not in love with her. I don't know why 'Occulation' was not swapped around with 'Shadow Pack' during the MK3 transition but that is neither here nor there. I tend to always run a Carnivean with her for Rapport. He's not the most optimal beast for her but she does really crank up his stats. I do love Dash and I've wanted to try out her in Ravens with G.Raiders who ignore free strikes. I don't own G.Raiders though and have other things I want to try first.
I don't know if I have any 'silver lining' for Rhyas. I still like her for small games or for casual play.
I do love the Twins though. Hopefully you'll enjoy them and their complexity. The next caster I will try to 'figure out' will either be Kryssa or Kallus2.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 18, 2017 15:41:22 GMT
Rapport is not worth it on any of the 1-2 beasts she wants to take. It's not worth the fury loss to buff a seraph of a protector. Zuriel already has the stats close enough and the 1 rat is not going to make him a good warbeast all of a sudden. I'm going to stop you for a second. Rapport offers extended control range. Even if you aren't buffing the stats, her control range for that beast is now 20". Slingshot that bad boy on her feat turn and have him surprise assassinate the enemy warlock/warcaster. Or, let him take care of some stuff on the other side of the battlefield while she supports the rest of her army with her smaller control range on the other side. Carniveans get +2 to both mat and rat. Ravagores gets +3 to mat and +1 to rat. Scytheans gets +2 to mat Angelius gets +2 to mat. Neraphs gets +1 to mat (and absolutely LOVES the extra melee attack). Zuriel only gets +1 mat. Azreal gets +1 mat and rat (only available through children, so doesn't work for ravens. But, since you have warlords, you might like CotD) Proteus gets +1 mat (only no theme) Typhon gets +1 mat and rat (only no theme). *sigh Thanks for the list I guess but that is completely extraneous information for what I meant. She "wants" a Seraph and a Protector to make her capable. Neither of these can or would want to fill the role you speak of. Zuriel would be the closest option and I, keyword, do not see losing a fury for that ability as worth while. I understand the sentiment. the First test game I had Azrael use Rapport to fly off and harass the other side of the table from Rhyas. I'm not so daft as to not see the intedned application. What I'm saying is that it is not ideal and is in my opinion not worth the investment. I'd rather keep the fury for transfers. Yes those models do gain a stat advantage. But with only 5 Fury I'm not inclined to run her with said beasts. She can't manage the Carnivean's basic need of 2 fury per turn (spiny growth. and I know CID might change it but that's not live yet). Ravagores boosting will have a similar budget need. and so on and so on. Rapport could be good if Rhyas could actually run a Heavy and not worry so much about loosing it's activation next turn (especially the gun platforms)
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 18, 2017 15:44:44 GMT
Try using Saeryn 1 if you want something truly depressing. At least Rhyas does something, and has an interesting feat. Saeryn just feats to tank and then glares at the enemy hoping her b1tch-stare will do something. Then move on to the twins, discover the most fun caster(s) in Legion, and never look back. -und_ed I actually like Saeryn 1's ball busting level of control. Does that make me insane?
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haurukh
Junior Strategist
Fyanna, Favourite Child of Everblight
Posts: 202
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Post by haurukh on Oct 18, 2017 16:01:54 GMT
Try using Saeryn 1 if you want something truly depressing. At least Rhyas does something, and has an interesting feat. Saeryn just feats to tank and then glares at the enemy hoping her b1tch-stare will do something. Then move on to the twins, discover the most fun caster(s) in Legion, and never look back. -und_ed I actually like Saeryn 1's ball busting level of control. Does that make me insane? I think many people (me included) underestimate the power of blight-bringer-the-spell at first sight. You have to realize that it de-facto means "no charges/trample/run for beasts/jacks under the effect". In addition to that, it can also mean "my beast survives agaisnt a jack who cannot boost", but that second part is harder to pull off. Throw in breath stealer, and you can outhreat opponents quite effectively (if you bring enough spell martyrs or Zuriel as arc node). Zuriel can actually stay safe at 10" from a beast/jack, as long as said model cannot charge and thus looses threat range. I would probably prefer the cheaper blight bringer from Abby though, as is, she is super strained fury wise. Her playstyle is also very different from the typical legion game, so it might take some effort to get used to a new way of thinking ^^.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 18, 2017 16:53:57 GMT
I would love to have Abby's blight whatever spell. To be able to cover 2+ targets with no focus/forcing would be lovely.
@forever_Blight Specifically, what do you do with Saeryn?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 18, 2017 17:26:48 GMT
I would love to have Abby's blight whatever spell. To be able to cover 2+ targets with no focus/forcing would be lovely. @forever_Blight Specifically, what do you do with Saeryn? The first thing I found to be hilarious was Zuriel, Typhon, Proteus, double hellmouths, and support staff. I think that's still some dumb fun. But nothing special. Right now I have a CotD list with 9 shredders that I need time to test. Everything else has just been random select games. Attractor + BB-spell is pretty funny. An Neraph can get a weird angle on two jacks and pull them together. Headbutt one of them. Then you hit the aoe and they can't really go anywhere. It's a high~ish price to trade. but depending on the models you get it could be worth it. In the same idea Afflictors are cheaper solutions. but can't knock something down for you. But if it's a Khador jack def 14 engaged isn't that hard to hit.
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Post by Falcen on Oct 18, 2017 17:30:00 GMT
The FLGS has stopped doing any PP events. The owner feels very wronged when PP made the transition to get rid of Press Gangers without so much as a email about the situation. He also was not happy with the shift of responsibilities to him/his store to run events without any support or communication. Lastly - he was a Merc player and felt that PP totally pulled a GW with MK3. The state that Mercs were/are in, he felt that PP really crapped on him. In short: hurt feelings. Not a good baseline for a business. If sales dropped anyway, it doesn't matter though, I guess... Mercs have always been a bottom faction... I only know that many Merc player in my region were quite happy with MK3. I'm not up to date on their front though, so it possbily is different than a year before. The cancelation of the Press Ganger programm wasn't PP's fault though. They had to end it quickly for legal reasons.
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haurukh
Junior Strategist
Fyanna, Favourite Child of Everblight
Posts: 202
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Post by haurukh on Oct 18, 2017 17:34:17 GMT
You could also shoot a spiny-up carnivean in the back. At aoe 5, only jacks/beasts with reach can attack him and actually boost. And killing an ARM 20 (or 23 on feat turn) carni with only initial attacks is somewhat difficult Cost 1 on spiny makes this even better. Of course this is situational and does not work against reach 2 heavies or infantry...
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