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Post by Cryptix on Dec 2, 2017 20:45:26 GMT
I really like the idea of the warhead on the Lance so a blast 10 centered on the target hit with the charge would be awesome. Or instead of blast 10 it could cause ether a knock down AOE or a disruption AOE. We have 10" APEs?! This isn't apocalypse.
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Post by MrHaystacks on Dec 4, 2017 16:30:44 GMT
Spriggan (Khador Heavy Warjack)
SPD: 4 STR: 12 MAT: 6 RAT: 4 DEF: 10 ARM: 19 CMD: - Construct 50mm base PC: 18 points FA: U
Grenade Launcher (Left) RNG: 10 ROF: 1 AOE: 3 POW: 10 -High Explosive-
Grenade Launcher (Right) RNG: 10 ROF: 1 AOE: 3 POW: 10 -High Explosive-
Shield RNG: 1 POW: 2 P+S: 14 Shield Icon (+2 ARM)
War Lance RNG: 2 POW: 6 P+S: 18
Bulldoze Steady
Grenade Launcher: Arching Fire Targeting Flare- Flare now give -2 Def to all effected models. This will bring in line with all other flare models.
War Lance: Powerful Charge -Brutal Charge-
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 6, 2017 15:02:34 GMT
Spriggan (Khador Heavy Warjack) SPD: 4 STR: 12 MAT: 6 RAT: 4 DEF: 10 ARM: 19 CMD: - Construct 50mm base PC: 18 points FA: U Grenade Launcher (Left) RNG: 10 ROF: 1 AOE: 3 POW: 10 -High Explosive- Grenade Launcher (Right) RNG: 10 ROF: 1 AOE: 3 POW: 10 -High Explosive- Shield RNG: 1 POW: 2 P+S: 14 Shield Icon (+2 ARM) War Lance RNG: 2 POW: 6 P+S: 18 Bulldoze Steady Grenade Launcher: Arching Fire Targeting Flare- Flare now give -2 Def to all effected models. This will bring in line with all other flare models. War Lance: Powerful Charge -Brutal Charge- I see that being 19 or 20 points easy
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Post by MrHaystacks on Dec 8, 2017 17:23:58 GMT
@jonny Boy, I would be happy if the only change was the reduced Def on the flares. Would find itself in to a much wider variety of lists. Feels like it should either lose the grenade launchers and have them only as flare/smoke; or cost much more points for a jack of all trades that costs far more than most of our Character jacks. With this in mind Ipropose the following.
Spriggan (Khador Heavy Warjack)
SPD: 4 STR: 12 MAT: 6 RAT: 4 DEF: 10 ARM: 19 CMD: - Construct 50mm base PC: 18 points (would love to get it down to 17pts but i doubt it) FA: U Grenade Launcher Removed. Added Utility Launcher
Shield RNG: 1 POW: 2 P+S: 14 Shield Icon (+2 ARM)
War Lance RNG: 2 POW: 6 P+S: 18
Bulldoze Steady
Utility Launcher: All types are placed wholly with in 10". Costs a focus(?) to place 2x 3" AoEs. Both AoE's must be the same. Ammo Type: Targeting Flare- Removes Stealth and allows LoS, Gives a non-stacking -2 Def. Smoke Launcher- 3" Aoe that blocks LoS Strangle Gas Canister: As AK's but does not need a direct hit.
War Lance: Powerful Charge
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 9, 2017 3:05:17 GMT
I agree with most of the changes, i just really doubt we will see two high explosive grenade launchers at no up shot.
Im too lazy right now to rewrite all of his rules. But thematically i've always see the spriggan as a 'mounted' jack. I think a overhaul that brings to life a jack solely built for charging would be interesting. It also seems it's hard to get a fairly costed jack of all trades jack.
I'm thinking adding a variation of mount rules. Add an extra attack die on charges. Remove the grenade launchers. Add a rule that is more in line with the devastator and demolisher, where on the charge the spriggan can make a high explosive shot against all models within X" of from arc upon contacting the first model during a charge. A flavor combination of impact attacks and devastator chassis.
Maybe steer away from the jack of all trades and give him a clear cut role. Charging.
You could call the ability 'Breach Charge'!!
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on Dec 10, 2017 10:35:11 GMT
I agree with most of the changes, i just really doubt we will see two high explosive grenade launchers at no up shot. Im too lazy right now to rewrite all of his rules. But thematically i've always see the spriggan as a 'mounted' jack. I think a overhaul that brings to life a jack solely built for charging would be interesting. It also seems it's hard to get a fairly costed jack of all trades jack. I'm thinking adding a variation of mount rules. Add an extra attack die on charges. Remove the grenade launchers. Add a rule that is more in line with the devastator and demolisher, where on the charge the spriggan can make a high explosive shot against all models within X" of from arc upon contacting the first model during a charge. A flavor combination of impact attacks and devastator chassis. Maybe steer away from the jack of all trades and give him a clear cut role. Charging. You could call the ability 'Breach Charge'!! how about having the spriggan's shield act like the horse's impact attack on cavalry? don't know if that's enough or too over the top but i like the idea of letting the spriggan make impact attacks while the shield arm is operational
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Post by lovehugs on Dec 10, 2017 13:49:32 GMT
Maybe I'm going off the rails here, but for 19 points Spriggan feels like one rule short off being a solid character Jack.
Does PP have their lore set in stone? Could the Spriggan as we know it be changed into a character and a new "Spriggan" be made?
The Lance and Shield is very Iron Fang Uhlan. Our boy Jack of all Trades caster Kozlov is also an Iron Fang, so could we get a Bond: Kozlov?
Everything about the Spriggan just seems generic bits strapped to a chassis. Lance, shield, grenade launcher. Nothing that makes it really fun. I think you can be a generic jack with no major strengths, but at least be fun.
Lance, give it the Kovnik Markov warhead treatment even if it's just a once per game use. Or crit knockdown.
Shield, fitting with the theme, why not give it something like +2 Arm to any unit it's B2B with, Girded or Shield Guard.
Grenade launcher, seems ok, nothing special. If you want anti stealth reinholdt, Viktor, Torch are there for you. I'd see this as an opportunity to maybe give Kozlov access to a few clouds that aren't Kodiaks, he gives Pathfinder to his BG, so sometimes you don't want to take them because you feel like marching a Jugg through the forest instead. Just instead of firing, place a 3" cloud in its range.
Seems like now you've got a supporty, anti jack, anti infantry all ish. It's no Jugg for removing heavies, no kodiak for infantry, no Devestator for survivability. Just a Jack of all trades Jack for ole "boring" Kozlov.
Now for a non-character jack Spriggan, keep the Lance, Shield. Remove the Launchers perhaps. Give it a purpose. I like the idea of a front line assassin. Just a big hulk of metal running at you with no regard for what is in between.
Bulldoze/Ton of Bricks/Crushing Weight for just being a wrecking ball.
I think this thread is just full of solid ideas for a regular ole everyday Spriggan and anything I would say has probably already been said.
But I thought I'd throw my 2 cents out there for making Spriggan a character jack that isn't "my cortex makes me want to murder a lot".
Because at 19 points it's rare you'd take 2 even if FA was unlimited. If there's only ever gonna be one on the field, make it feel special.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Dec 11, 2017 12:44:14 GMT
While I like that you are stretching your creative legs, I think changing the Spriggan to become a character jack or eliminating the grenade launchers are non-starters. For all of those players out there that have 2 or more Spriggans (you know, like me) it would be bad to tell them that any that they have above their 1st are now garbage and that they now need to rip parts off of the one that they do get to use. If they have Kozlov.
Now, there is potential in the idea of a Kozlov getting his own character jack that just happens to be a Spriggan. If you do that then you can look at all sorts of crazy stuff that you can do. But, that doesn't do anything for the base-model Spriggan.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 11, 2017 22:27:15 GMT
While I like that you are stretching your creative legs, I think changing the Spriggan to become a character jack or eliminating the grenade launchers are non-starters. For all of those players out there that have 2 or more Spriggans (you know, like me) it would be bad to tell them that any that they have above their 1st are now garbage and that they now need to rip parts off of the one that they do get to use. If they have Kozlov. Now, there is potential in the idea of a Kozlov getting his own character jack that just happens to be a Spriggan. If you do that then you can look at all sorts of crazy stuff that you can do. But, that doesn't do anything for the base-model Spriggan. If any of that was directed at my suggestion, I'd like to clarify. I don't think the 'grenade launchers" be removed from the model. Only that their rule interpretation be reconsidered and designed to be a bit more unique. While also fitting with the other chassis versions.
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 11, 2017 22:37:08 GMT
Well the things that the clam chassis have in common is.
Base Arm19 Mat 6 Grenades of some kind. Big shields.
So the new Spriggan would have to share those. Or they Will all change.
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Post by lovehugs on Dec 16, 2017 1:14:42 GMT
Well the things that the clam chassis have in common is. Base Arm19 Mat 6 Grenades of some kind. Big shields. So the new Spriggan would have to share those. Or they Will all change. Yupp, shoulder mounted explosives does seem to be a theme with them. Plus as Blarg said, people with the old models shouldn't have to remove them. In all honesty I just fudged the point cost for them. I thought the grenades would be worth at least 2 points, but after looking at Torch to Decimator more closely I'd argue that they aren't even worth half a point.
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Post by Havock on Dec 26, 2017 0:55:00 GMT
Leave as-is, add Brutal Charge,add Sturdy, add Shield Guard. Then it's right back at the premium prices swiss army knife role and worth it for more than just the flares.
That would be my vote.
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