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Post by sirk on Oct 2, 2017 21:36:49 GMT
I think there are other casters that can try going without screening units. Kaya2 can still alpha quite decently into many but the most fast opponents. Then there are lists that use wrongeye that can go without unit screen: Kromac2 can use a starcrossed scarsfell first line and Baldur2 can just use that and the wall and try to eat the alpha. I'm not saying these lists won't have other issues (like scenario), just that they do not absolutely need a screening unit.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 2, 2017 22:20:26 GMT
To this day I am still not sold on WE and SJ. Facing them I can almost always find a way to remove WE and I fond the bubble to be very small especially in SR2017. I don’t doubt people have success with them. I just have never seen them used to great effect
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Post by Forsaken on Oct 5, 2017 12:06:15 GMT
On a slight tangent; is anybody thinking LotF is worth taking as a freebie in Call?
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 5, 2017 13:04:36 GMT
On a slight tangent; is anybody thinking LotF is worth taking as a freebie in Call? Maybe? He is still garbage. But slightly less so for free. I have been playing around with him in Company of Iron for funsies and he is pretty awful in that environment as well. I would rather have wayfarers honestly, more utility and arguably harder to kill with Prowl up. If he had 2" reach and/or maybe GW I would be much more apt to use him.
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Post by Nahualli on Oct 5, 2017 17:06:33 GMT
I played twice Kaya3 yesterday, and there is a very good reason to have Lord of the Feast: he has straight Stealth and 17 armor. You are not going to use it to clear infantry. You can have him an a Gremlin Swarm for difficult to remove scoring pieces. I lost because I couldn't keep my solos safe from shooting, they were removed trivially. Now I have changed my lists to include both always. This is specially important on a Fury 6 caster.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 5, 2017 22:54:36 GMT
I played twice Kaya3 yesterday, and there is a very good reason to have Lord of the Feast: he has straight Stealth and 17 armor. You are not going to use it to clear infantry. You can have him an a Gremlin Swarm for difficult to remove scoring pieces. I lost because I couldn't keep my solos safe from shooting, they were removed trivially. Now I have changed my lists to include both always. This is specially important on a Fury 6 caster. Just doesn’t feel right having him derp on a flag. I want him to eat things lol
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 6, 2017 9:08:51 GMT
Played 2 match yesterday with Kromac 1 (non exactly no merc, gobbers and ogrun bokur), both spread the net.
Against Absylonia 2, I won the startig roll and pushed upfield, i treath further and got a scenario win 8-3. Against Helynna double sentinels, triple manticore I lost the starting rolls, and He set the engage line upfield and pop both iron zeal and feat. He goes up on scenario, but I had the attrition advantage. I won on clock down 3-6 on scenario.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 6, 2017 14:01:05 GMT
Played 2 match yesterday with Kromac 1 (non exactly no merc, gobbers and ogrun bokur), both spread the net. Against Absylonia 2, I won the startig roll and pushed upfield, i treath further and got a scenario win 8-3. Against Helynna double sentinels, triple manticore I lost the starting rolls, and He set the engage line upfield and pop both iron zeal and feat. He goes up on scenario, but I had the attrition advantage. I won on clock down 3-6 on scenario. I feel like for the majority of our casters we will always be down on scenario. We wont be able to be up on attrition without sacrificing scenario and vice versa. Our faction just does not have the staying power for it. How do you like kromac 1 in Call? I find that sentry stones are amazing for triggering warpath and its hard for me to play him without them.
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 6, 2017 15:02:19 GMT
Pagani's list worked back when you could double teleport the wild aggression stalkers in, use warpath to get extra movement to mulch even more infantry and then sprint to a good final position to be as annoying as possible.
Now the stalkers need that warpath move just to generate enough threat range to get in there in the first place leaving the bezerk chain feeling very anemic. That and their charge range is only 1" longer than a basic teleport now where as it used to be 1" shorter so teleporting actually helped with the line of sight issue caused by the coven. So a charging bane knight will threaten exactly the same distance as a teleported stalker so the cryx player can use those under the feat to deny the circle player any room to maneuver. Its even worse when you consider Bane Riders which will force your front line to back up ceding precious scenario space.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 6, 2017 16:11:46 GMT
Pagani's list worked back when you could double teleport the wild aggression stalkers in, use warpath to get extra movement to mulch even more infantry and then sprint to a good final position to be as annoying as possible. Now the stalkers need that warpath move just to generate enough threat range to get in there in the first place leaving the bezerk chain feeling very anemic. That and their charge range is only 1" longer than a basic teleport now where as it used to be 1" shorter so teleporting actually helped with the line of sight issue caused by the coven. So a charging bane knight will threaten exactly the same distance as a teleported stalker so the cryx player can use those under the feat to deny the circle player any room to maneuver. Its even worse when you consider Bane Riders which will force your front line to back up ceding precious scenario space. I think in general coven just needs a nerf. How they got through CiD with dark host still confuses me. Especially considering how much we met resistance with bradigus and the watcher changes. Not even considering some of the things they changed in the trollkin cid. *grumble grumble* I think if you can fit a screening unit somehow you can actually absorb the covens feat and force them pop feat early. I am wondering what minion unit would be a good screen into dark host.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 6, 2017 16:25:51 GMT
Played 2 match yesterday with Kromac 1 (non exactly no merc, gobbers and ogrun bokur), both spread the net. Against Absylonia 2, I won the startig roll and pushed upfield, i treath further and got a scenario win 8-3. Against Helynna double sentinels, triple manticore I lost the starting rolls, and He set the engage line upfield and pop both iron zeal and feat. He goes up on scenario, but I had the attrition advantage. I won on clock down 3-6 on scenario. I feel like for the majority of our casters we will always be down on scenario. We wont be able to be up on attrition without sacrificing scenario and vice versa. Our faction just does not have the staying power for it. How do you like kromac 1 in Call? I find that sentry stones are amazing for triggering warpath and its hard for me to play him without them. Is fun... I think arm 20+ are troublesome, shooting too. I picked a pureblood for triggering warpath, and win the starting roll is handy because going first and pushing hard force the opponent to commit value hard pieces or contesting with chaff enabling the warpath chain. Scarsfells area brilliant contesters and with warpath they can clear a good amount of infantry. I have no idea if can fit a reasonable paring but Kromac CotW have a refreshing taste of mk2.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 6, 2017 17:40:38 GMT
Pagani's list worked back when you could double teleport the wild aggression stalkers in, use warpath to get extra movement to mulch even more infantry and then sprint to a good final position to be as annoying as possible. Now the stalkers need that warpath move just to generate enough threat range to get in there in the first place leaving the bezerk chain feeling very anemic. That and their charge range is only 1" longer than a basic teleport now where as it used to be 1" shorter so teleporting actually helped with the line of sight issue caused by the coven. So a charging bane knight will threaten exactly the same distance as a teleported stalker so the cryx player can use those under the feat to deny the circle player any room to maneuver. Its even worse when you consider Bane Riders which will force your front line to back up ceding precious scenario space. Your analysis is too arsh. If you start (and theme give you +1) you can set the engage line so far upfield that he forced to feat defensively for deliver his army. You can now backup safely e start the real game on tird turn.
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 6, 2017 18:16:57 GMT
... and if you don't go first?
Banking your game plan on that +1 seems like a very bad plan.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 6, 2017 18:33:47 GMT
You are going to go down on scenario... but you can recover. And kromac have excellent attrition play.
Again: scarsfells aren't trivially removed by infantry. And clumping 4-5 puppets around a griffon with dodge and warpath is a real bad idea.
Komac isn't the end of the world but against melee army is quite strong. He hate bricks and gunlines tought.
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daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
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Post by daveg on Oct 6, 2017 18:41:02 GMT
Played 2 match yesterday with Kromac 1 (non exactly no merc, gobbers and ogrun bokur), both spread the net. Against Absylonia 2, I won the startig roll and pushed upfield, i treath further and got a scenario win 8-3. Against Helynna double sentinels, triple manticore I lost the starting rolls, and He set the engage line upfield and pop both iron zeal and feat. He goes up on scenario, but I had the attrition advantage. I won on clock down 3-6 on scenario. I've been thinking about two winter argus instead of double Scarsfell. One with IR hopefully as zone holders. Maybe one and one since I own those models already. Glad to have some of my thoughts confirmed. I wonder how a it does into a gunline as that is what I have traditionally struggled with Kromac against. I was thinking SR2017 would help him.
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