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Post by jisidro on Mar 29, 2017 16:48:18 GMT
I'm not a fan of the vet leader blackclad, it'll make it officially a theme within circle which is ridiculous lore-wise, further fractures the faction into little pieces and creates an even wider gap between constructs and livings... Just off the top of my head consctructs don't have damage buffs and no access to wraithbane... If someone used wraithbane it's the pillowfisted wolds. (Power-wise it'll be great as most of our warlocks are Blackclads. Be prepared for no keyword casters in the future. ) We have: - Male Tharn - Female Tharn - Wolfsworn (War wolves not included) - Blackclads (Or so I believe) - Stone units - Livings (Una2 sub-theme here) - Consctructs (Bradigus sub-theme here) Feels it's too fractured expecially on the warrior model side, aren't we a beast faction?
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Post by Forsaken on Mar 29, 2017 21:33:42 GMT
I dunno, with Bokurs are shieldguarding woldwatchers even needed/wanted any more? Bokur shieldguarding picks up the slack left after we lost it off the wolwatcher but with Privateer is pushing hard for theme lists so that will likely become inaccessible again. Having it in faction on something other then a heavy will be important I think. I'm not really sure what the reason was behind taking it off in the first place. Did they feel it was too powerful with stoneform? Were they reaction nerfing him because of the popularity from Bradigus' tier list? Were they trying to give the woldguardian more of a roll? If so then why take the woldguardians flesh of clay (or for that matter empathic transference and girded)? It may have actually been worth taking a 17pnt model if he had kept his animus instead of the crappy addition of bulldoze on a speed 4 wold. I still think shieldguard is better suited to the woldwatcher though.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 30, 2017 11:14:36 GMT
The bulldoze issue for me is not the speed alone but the fact that he can't cast and run.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 30, 2017 11:47:03 GMT
Fulcrum woldwyrd gun line is going to be scary...now only if we can get woldwatchers to have shield guard again... I dunno, with Bokurs are shieldguarding woldwatchers even needed/wanted any more? Personally, I stand by hoping for stone formed woldwatchers gaining roadblock, and maybe a base +1 PS. less redundancy with bokurs, and goes with the circle terrain generation schtick. Yes because I'm pretty sure we are the only faction in game that only has 1 Shield guard in faction and it's a heavy that's overcosted. Roadblock and Fury 3 would go a long way. Possibly give it a Mat buff as well. I'm not convinced they playtested the woldwatcher at all. He's just literally so useless right now.
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Post by kuririnad on Mar 30, 2017 19:27:20 GMT
Yes because I'm pretty sure we are the only faction in game that only has 1 Shield guard in faction and it's a heavy that's overcosted. Loki takes offense at this!
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 30, 2017 19:41:36 GMT
Yes because I'm pretty sure we are the only faction in game that only has 1 Shield guard in faction and it's a heavy that's overcosted. Loki takes offense at this! As does Khador if I'm not mistaken
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 30, 2017 21:41:09 GMT
Yes because I'm pretty sure we are the only faction in game that only has 1 Shield guard in faction and it's a heavy that's overcosted. Loki takes offense at this! Oh no....I forgot about him...he's been so good to me and I failed him....this is going to come back to haunt me.... I could care less about Khador Shield guard woes
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Post by Bomma on Mar 31, 2017 6:42:56 GMT
I've been looking at this theme as well.. I like some of the suggestions and lists here as well, Tanith is very cool.
Most have steered away from Bradigus but I'll put in the list I've figured for him.
Bradigus +27
Woldwarden 16 Woldwarden 16 Woldwatcher 9 Woldwatcher 9 Woldwatcher 9 Woldwatcher 9 Woldwyrd 9 Woldwyrd 9
Stoneshaper 0 Stoneshaper 0 Blackclad 0
Sentry Stone 5 Sentry Stone 5 Shifting 3 Shifting 3
I've tried a few lists to make him work before the theme.. he's been ok but not a Wurmwood or Kromac 2. I also agree that from the list Bradigus is personally very disappointing.
I put one of my nuts on a bet that this theme was going to give Watchers their shield guard..
Currently one nut.. B.
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Post by Stibe on Apr 1, 2017 8:38:20 GMT
I got inspired to try my hand at pKromac, here's what I came up with:
Theme: The Bones of Orboros 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Arcane Wonder - Steamroller Objective
Kromac the Ravenous - WB: +26 - Kromac the Ravenous (BEAST FORM) - Wold Guardian - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Wold Guardian - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Ghetorix - PC: 21 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9
Gallows Grove - PC: 2 Blackclad Stoneshaper - PC: 0 Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0 Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0
Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3 Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3 Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
I wanted to create list where I can bully and threat with assassination, and I'm quite happy with it. Guardians threat 13" with Warpath and Hunter's Mark. I've wanted a dispel to go with Bestial, but since such things don't exist in-faction, I'm gonna have to do with Wyrds and just shoot the buff off the table. Ghetorix threats 16"+overtake, as usual. Bit worried if I have enough armor cracking, but we'll see when I can get to table.
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Post by Stibe on Apr 3, 2017 12:32:07 GMT
Got two games in with the above list, first game vs Venethrax and second vs Zaadesh with a very scary beast menagerie. Won the first game, and would have won the second one if I only missed one hit less(6 misses needing 7s) when I went supersayian on him. Totally enjoyed playing the list. It was my first time playing both with Kromac and Woldwyrds, and boy was I in for a ride. Woldwyrds are pretty ridiculous with Warpath, 20" threat range. I was actually threatening turn 2 assassination on Venethrax, but eventually abandoned that plan as I made few mistakes moving my models and I ruined my own los. I would have pretty definitely lost the second game, but my opponent was just out of sacpawn range with an upkeep on, so I could get lots of damage through to his otherwise ARM20+ beasts. After playing mostly oldmanstat casters, it was a refreshing change to almost get two assassinations off in a row. I had totally underestimated the threat range of Kromac in Beast Form. I'm gonna keep playing with the list and report more if I remember.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 3, 2017 16:35:18 GMT
It's great to see someone test out that list! Few questions I have:
- did you find that the triple woldwyrd + Bestial just stopped the opponent from putting up upkeeps/buffs? I'd think that at that point the opportunity cost would be too high
- have you considered Woldwardens at all with this list? Rift seems like a good spell to have as a geomancy option, they're faster* (without the pseudo-beatback) of Wold Guardians and they did almost as hard, especially if you can work in combo smite.
- Was the lack of primal/a damage buff for Ghetorix a problem? The biggest issue with the list I see is that it only has Ghetorix as a method of breaking armor.
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Post by Stibe on Apr 3, 2017 18:07:14 GMT
Haven't played much against eithet of the mentioned casters, so I don't know how much they usually like to cast upkeeps. And on my club there isn't much Woldwyrds going about, so I'm willing to bet if I asked for a rematch they'd watch their caster more. On Woldwardens, they are pretty much my favorite model in the game, and I usually go for them over Guardians whenever I'm building a list. That said, I wanted to make a list that would allow me to play more forward to get work off of both Bestial and feat assassination, and Guardians allow me to do that easier, I think. Shield guard also protects my Sentry Stones from first turn of shooting when they're usually most vulnerable since they are at the forefront of my army. Guardians also allow me to bully people off zones so I can also threat cp win if their caster isn't feeling like getting assassinated. I'm not a very good person to comment on Primal, since casting it has yet to give me really good value in games (tells more about me than Primal tbh), so I'm quite happy to go without it. Lots of armor would definitely present problems, and if I were to go to rematch with Zaadesh, I think he'd know to protect his caster better, and 5 ARM20+ beasts are quite a bit of work to remove with this list.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 3, 2017 18:49:47 GMT
I think wardens are pretty overcosted but if they became Pow 17 I might change my mind I also like the warden but I tend to like the Guardian model better. If it helps I find primal to be a neccesary evil more than a buff. I only use it when I absolutely have no choice lol. I've stated relying more on crippling heavies or disabling them than straight up wrecking them when dealing with heavy Spam. It's one of those all in to Swing the game kind of animi that you have to be sure you want to sacrifice whatever your sending in as it will probably die in two turns.
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Post by Dev Null on Apr 3, 2017 22:09:21 GMT
Not to sidetrack the thread too much, but the underlying cost to Primal, that doesn't seem to get talked about much, is not that you're sacrificing a beast in a trade, but that you're liable to be sacrificing two. On the turn that someone Primals a beast and sends it at me, I'm fairly unlikely to kill it unless I have no choice. I'd much rather kill something else and leave your Primalled beast to frenzy next turn - then you'll be two beasts down that turn. If the game is still on, I can try to kill the Primal target the turn _after_ it frenzies.
That said, there's absolutely nothing like it for when you really _really_ want something dead. And if you win the game with it, you never pay for the downside. Perfect for assassins, clearing critical landing zones for assassins, and for making sure you clear that last model out of a zone to score a critical VP.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 4, 2017 8:38:34 GMT
Not to sidetrack the thread too much, but the underlying cost to Primal, that doesn't seem to get talked about much, is not that you're sacrificing a beast in a trade, but that you're liable to be sacrificing two. On the turn that someone Primals a beast and sends it at me, I'm fairly unlikely to kill it unless I have no choice. I'd much rather kill something else and leave your Primalled beast to frenzy next turn - then you'll be two beasts down that turn. If the game is still on, I can try to kill the Primal target the turn _after_ it frenzies. That said, there's absolutely nothing like it for when you really _really_ want something dead. And if you win the game with it, you never pay for the downside. Perfect for assassins, clearing critical landing zones for assassins, and for making sure you clear that last model out of a zone to score a critical VP. I do see what you're saying, but personally I've never had much trouble mitigating that cost. Either you kill something that's WORTH the lost of a beast for 2 turns (primaled, strength buffed feral given a free charge can one-round a colossal) or you position so that the primaled beasts is engaging something important (typically another heavy, or an important support piece) so they have to deal with it if want to get value out of that piece that turn. Works best with Stalkers, who can go in, kill something, then pop lightning strike to sprint and engage something (or several somethings) after killing the primary target.
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