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Post by bskhacker on Sept 30, 2017 13:04:00 GMT
I think the change was because of Amon. I think it's a bit of a crazy change when they hand gangfighter to all cryx jacks for just playing the game normally. No-one even has to die, everyone just gets gangfighter oh and the other theme has carapace... of course they just released all the redone cryx jacks so probably a push for sales... As above the light jacks needed the damage boost and there were plenty of other casters who would use non-dervishes etc... So now you are trying to squeeze all heavy jacks into your infantry theme in order for the only useful benefit to work. Massively restricts the number of jacks who can benefit from it anyway and the Avatar is a non-event... A few things: yes gangfighter noone has to die to trigger, but you do need to get them both it trigger. Cryx jacks are fragile so there's a good chance you can shoot off an arm. Also that theme isn't anything to worry about for the time being. It's only heavy jacks that get carapace. Most of our lights hit above their points, the Dervish being number one. The other lights have a gun or a different role.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Sept 30, 2017 14:31:05 GMT
Wake up see this.....mixed feelings. I understand why the exclusion of lights, but the truth is that it was only an issue with amon in the first place. Ultimately just a bit disappointing more than anything else, but ultimately most of the theory lists will function as intended.
On Guardians: well that's 1 for 4 in buffing the units of the actual theme reliably. Not sure how much it'll really matter, but tough steady on such cheap models without some lynchpin other model isn't to be sneezed at. should also make pyrrhus just that much more of a pain.
On Creator's Might: finally, a damn screening unit already. I realize most will be thinking about their idrians, I actually think steelheads will be better. just something, anything, to get in the way. Still not ready for primetime because the few bonus points you get are better "spent" getting blessed from exemplars, but....progress.
On Interdiction: a lot of people might expect Idrians to replace Errants but I'm not so sure. the magical blessed crossbows answer a few question people are explicitly looking to interdiction for, and in the meantime the ability to control death order is a bit undervalued on these boards IMO. it has served me well. Still need help on the medium bases.
On Faithful Masses: No one brings Behemoth, DJ, the Avatar, etc. so none of my opponents bring eiyriss anymore. I can sneak him into this list once or twice for a surprise they can't stop. Honestly, I think this is our most powerful theme even without the HOV on lights, simply for being the most recent out of CID with attendant power creep. It presents us with more build paths, more supported caster, and most of our most powerful individual models: covenant, monk, new deliverers, heirophant, and idrians.
My tournament plans will likely be pairing masses and interdiction. Creator's Mights seems like it'll be left to rot, and I don't own a couple of key models to properly round out my guardian lists even if I wanted it.
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Post by paradox on Sept 30, 2017 16:30:53 GMT
Wake up see this.....mixed feelings. I understand why the exclusion of lights, but the truth is that it was only an issue with amon in the first place. Ultimately just a bit disappointing more than anything else, but ultimately most of the theory lists will function as intended. Seeing how they handled Karchev and mad dogs, or Una2 and scarsfels, Im glad they didnt touch Amon. It at least has me rethinking GotT completely. I previously played it purely for Ambush daughters. Im looking forward tothe Flameguard CID. We can address these details there (like, hierophants, cause the guardians should be guarding stuff from the temple). Ive actually really enjoyed CM. Not sure I need a screening unit. Still a jack theme, if youre not keen on all the exemplars with very specific casters. Been playing Avatar in lists lately. Now relooking at FM.
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Post by Azuresun on Sept 30, 2017 16:41:11 GMT
On Guardians: well that's 1 for 4 in buffing the units of the actual theme reliably. Not sure how much it'll really matter, but tough steady on such cheap models without some lynchpin other model isn't to be sneezed at. should also make pyrrhus just that much more of a pain. That is pretty cool for most players. (Not for me, of course. My Tough dice are notorious for always rolling 4's, so they can taunt me by technically being above average.)
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Oct 1, 2017 5:24:45 GMT
I think it's a bit of a crazy change when they hand gangfighter to all cryx jacks for just playing the game normally. No-one even has to die, everyone just gets gangfighter oh and the other theme has carapace... of course they just released all the redone cryx jacks so probably a push for sales... As above the light jacks needed the damage boost and there were plenty of other casters who would use non-dervishes etc... So now you are trying to squeeze all heavy jacks into your infantry theme in order for the only useful benefit to work. Massively restricts the number of jacks who can benefit from it anyway and the Avatar is a non-event... Crusaders, a ten point heavy, cheapest in faction, goes all the way to pow 25, mat 11 under Amon, all for the pleasure of one man dying next to him. I don't think we have a problem honestly. For me the lights are usually the ones setting up the synergy anyway, mat7 base dervishes and boosted hits from other lights is the starter for the crusader main course. I'm looking at the Templar.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Oct 1, 2017 13:30:49 GMT
On Guardians: well that's 1 for 4 in buffing the units of the actual theme reliably. Not sure how much it'll really matter, but tough steady on such cheap models without some lynchpin other model isn't to be sneezed at. should also make pyrrhus just that much more of a pain. That is pretty cool for most players. (Not for me, of course. My Tough dice are notorious for always rolling 4's, so they can taunt me by technically being above average.) I don't have rhupert or gravus or other factions, so I don't think I've EVER rolled a tough die outside monks. It's all martyrdom or death for me. That said, the reason I'm not sure it'll matter is that I, in the few matches I've proxied something and used guardians, have been heavily discourages from grouping the the TFG in the first place into their shield walls. Nearly everything in my meta still kills that a bit too reliably, so spreading out and covering a LOT more ground is often the better option. I will definitely have to try a few matches with the new buffs though. Guardian's only remaining issue seems to be the same thing I spotted on day 1: it emphasizes units with low hitting power, making it cripplingly weak into most arm skews unless you're really careful. EDIT: edited for spelling.
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Post by Azuresun on Oct 1, 2017 14:16:14 GMT
I think it's a bit of a crazy change when they hand gangfighter to all cryx jacks for just playing the game normally. No-one even has to die, everyone just gets gangfighter oh and the other theme has carapace... of course they just released all the redone cryx jacks so probably a push for sales... As above the light jacks needed the damage boost and there were plenty of other casters who would use non-dervishes etc... So now you are trying to squeeze all heavy jacks into your infantry theme in order for the only useful benefit to work. Massively restricts the number of jacks who can benefit from it anyway and the Avatar is a non-event... A few things: yes gangfighter noone has to die to trigger, but you do need to get them both it trigger. Cryx jacks are fragile so there's a good chance you can shoot off an arm. Also that theme isn't anything to worry about for the time being. It's only heavy jacks that get carapace. Most of our lights hit above their points, the Dervish being number one. The other lights have a gun or a different role. One other thing to note is that the only Cryx infantry in that theme are Bloodgorgers and Black Ogrun. The former are relatively easy to stop, and the other are medium infantry in Mk3. It might improve when the Scharde infantry come out, but till then, it's going to be hard to actually claim that bonus.
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Post by Azuresun on Oct 1, 2017 14:20:31 GMT
That is pretty cool for most players. (Not for me, of course. My Tough dice are notorious for always rolling 4's, so they can taunt me by technically being above average.) I don't have rhupert or gravus or other factions, so I don't think I've EVER rolled a tough die outside monks. It's all martyrdom or death for me. I once played a game with pirates in Mk2 where I missed about 20+ tough checks in a row, the first half being on a 4+. At first it was funny, then it was tragic, then it became funny again.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Oct 1, 2017 15:24:08 GMT
yeah, there comes a point where all you can do is laugh. I once played a 40K tournament with my space marines: 7 lascannons in the list, 3 of which were twin linked. 2 thunderfires. A crapton of bolters. orbital bombardment. 2500 points. 4 rounds.
1. single. kill. point. It was a trukk.
I got free dice at the end of the day for being a good sport about it.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 1, 2017 15:40:08 GMT
I think the gang fighter cryx theme will only be a real issue after some more units come out for it.
Most of what makes cryx a problem right now is specific casters.
Denny1, Coven, and Skarre1 all turn the themes up to 11billion and honestly Coven is the worst out of all of them.
Hilariously Ellis is going to give Denny 1 Fits so that may bring some gear checks into play. She'll be taking around 2D3 auto damage if you put ellish in a safe spot. And if you use him to dispel the upkeeps that's another 2D3 auto damage. Can be pretty hilarious I think.
I have a Reznick 1 list in Faithful Masses I want to just try into Cryx. Between Idrians for screening and dps,Zealots for contesting, Infabtry removal, and HoV trigger, and all the Spell hate he can offer, I think it has a lot of potential.
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Post by paradox on Oct 1, 2017 16:45:40 GMT
I think the gang fighter cryx theme will only be a real issue after some more units come out for it. Most of what makes cryx a problem right now is specific casters. Denny1, Coven, and Skarre1 all turn the themes up to 11billion and honestly Coven is the worst out of all of them. Hilariously Ellis is going to give Denny 1 Fits so that may bring some gear checks into play. She'll be taking around 2D3 auto damage if you put ellish in a safe spot. And if you use him to dispel the upkeeps that's another 2D3 auto damage. Can be pretty hilarious I think. I have a Reznick 1 list in Faithful Masses I want to just try into Cryx. Between Idrians for screening and dps,Zealots for contesting, Infabtry removal, and HoV trigger, and all the Spell hate he can offer, I think it has a lot of potential. If Denny1 is in Ghost Fleet, how is Ellish gear checking her? Like, recurring rifles CRA that ignore LoS? More like Denny1 ghost fleet gearchecks any list relying on Ellish.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 1, 2017 17:31:57 GMT
You can always shield guard and if rifles are shooting at ellish you can force them to commit further up so you can remove them.
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Post by Chris Bassett on Oct 1, 2017 18:22:45 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O0T1U1Ug93kjC3E3t2_jI2i3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Severius 1) Grand Scrutator Severius [+28] - Crusader [10] - Crusader [10] - Revelator [37] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Vassal Mechanik [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Holy Zealots (max) [12] - Monolith Bearer [3] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [0(5)] Anyone thinking of using the revelator? He's got the seeing everything/magic weapons/templates on direct hits, sev can vision/DW him and he provides a moving wall and will hit like a truck (POW 26) Crusaders for cheap smashy mallets (POW23) Some strong solos - allegiant for flags and then the reasonably sturdy champion (with righteous vengeance for threat) and a shield guard from Vilmon. It is missing the deliverer side but you have the revelator with boosted RAT from Sev (as well as the zealots). Double screening units with zealots and the excellence that is idrians
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Oct 1, 2017 21:07:54 GMT
Anyone thinking of using the revelator? He's got the seeing everything/magic weapons/templates on direct hits, sev can vision/DW him and he provides a moving wall and will hit like a truck (POW 26) I've been waiting years to use the Revelator. I'm just glad that we don't have to reset the clock any more.
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Post by paradox on Oct 1, 2017 21:48:36 GMT
You can always shield guard and if rifles are shooting at ellish you can force them to commit further up so you can remove them. So, like, a gear check? EDIT: to add, or Denny takes D3 and Venoms him to death?
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