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Post by Aegis on Sept 29, 2017 23:57:08 GMT
Fantastic...
1) They have nerfed Heavy Metal (now it gives a solo every 30 points of jacks instead of 25). Also, its one of the few lists that can't include a merc Solo...
2) They have updated Storm Division in a stupid way, with Acosta being now FF, but being removed by the list of allowed models, so practically they removed it from the theme since noone is going to take Acosta over Pyper or Ragman.
3) They have removed Squire from Sons of Tempest and kept the stupid bonus of the free upkeep, that practically is useful only with Caine1, ignoring all other good suggestions.
GG PP, 3 nerfs just after another 3 big nerfs (Haley2, Lances, Laddermoore). They really don't have the concept of "nerf a thing and see how it is", they let over the curve things be there for months (Lances) and then pile up 6 nerfs in a couple of weeks...
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 29, 2017 23:57:45 GMT
Finally, my swordsman spam list is in theme!
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 30, 2017 0:38:21 GMT
Well, I simply cannot understand the way benefits have been allocated, especially for Cryx. IMO, the benefits for Cryx lists seem overly strong. My impression had been that Cryx was already doing very well in tournaments. I have started selling down my factions. Think I will continue. You think cryx is bad. Wait till skorne figures out how to abuse thier themes buddy. Best faction in hordes hands down. You're not wrong... I wonder if Masters of War is just a placeholder for whenever we get Praetorian and Cataphract themes separately. It's about as uninspired as possible and took one of our best tourney lists (CatMak) and turned to 11 before ripping the knob off. I'm happy to finally have themes but I had assumed they were going to work around cav in that theme. Nope.
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 30, 2017 1:09:29 GMT
You're not wrong... I wonder if Masters of War is just a placeholder for whenever we get Praetorian and Cataphract themes separately. It's about as uninspired as possible and took one of our best tourney lists (CatMak) and turned to 11 before ripping the knob off. I'm happy to finally have themes but I had assumed they were going to work around cav in that theme. Nope. Of course it's over the top. Gotta get you sheeple to buy into now before they nerf it 6-months down the line. ::Pessimism Off:: Do Cataphracts and Praetorians really need to be separated though? They're both the "real" members of the warrior caste. Unless they flesh out each side more, I don't see this happening.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 30, 2017 1:10:48 GMT
You think cryx is bad. Wait till skorne figures out how to abuse thier themes buddy. Best faction in hordes hands down. You're not wrong... I wonder if Masters of War is just a placeholder for whenever we get Praetorian and Cataphract themes separately. It's about as uninspired as possible and took one of our best tourney lists (CatMak) and turned to 11 before ripping the knob off. I'm happy to finally have themes but I had assumed they were going to work around cav in that theme. Nope. The issue is that people did not appreciate how disgusting Cats were without a theme and now I think MoW will make Cryx lists look like childs play. This is why they should have waited for CiD for themes like this. I think in general skorne is just amazing right now They gained so much fro the faction re-work and now with all the themes out its just going to be a clusterf*** Oh well. Ill just derp around with my bones of orboros and zealots. I play for fun anyway winning tournaments is for skorne and cryx players now haha
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 30, 2017 1:31:10 GMT
I don't think MoW is THAT good for cats. As lists are currently constructed you get 2 free TyComms. That's real good but not stupid good. No free solos. You're probably going to see several casters you who've been waiting on the models to hit theme. Zaal1, Xerxis1, Mordikaar in addition to Makeda 1+2.
I do think there will be Gravediggers style fleshing out of Praetorians and Cataphracts in the future. Faaarrrr into the future though.
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Post by tesoe on Sept 30, 2017 1:58:36 GMT
Cephalyx got access to Cryx solos again.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 30, 2017 2:16:15 GMT
Does anyone else think it's weird that EVERY theme now has access to mercs/minions. Regardless of how fundamentally restrictive the theme? And not just access to some but to all(with the evident exception of Khador?)? Seems strange that lists built on "Only Jacks" can take merc units. Also I expect Rhupert to be everywhere.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Sept 30, 2017 2:28:06 GMT
Does anyone else think it's weird that EVERY theme now has access to mercs/minions. Regardless of how fundamentally restrictive the theme? And not just access to some but to all(with the evident exception of Khador?)? Seems strange that lists built on "Only Jacks" can take merc units. Also I expect Rhupert to be everywhere. But it isn't all mercs. Just the ones who will work for the faction. Doesn't seem wierd at all.
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Post by catulle on Sept 30, 2017 2:59:00 GMT
Fantastic... 3) They have removed Squire from Sons of Tempest and kept the stupid bonus of the free upkeep, that practically is useful only with Caine1, ignoring all other good suggestions. Squire solos are in the theme in my warroom... They're even available for free.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 30, 2017 3:15:16 GMT
Does anyone else think it's weird that EVERY theme now has access to mercs/minions. Regardless of how fundamentally restrictive the theme? And not just access to some but to all(with the evident exception of Khador?)? Seems strange that lists built on "Only Jacks" can take merc units. Also I expect Rhupert to be everywhere. But it isn't all mercs. Just the ones who will work for the faction. Doesn't seem wierd at all. That goes without saying. I was under the impression from some of their releases and insiders that they were going to go through and specify what could or could not be taken in each individual theme based upon fluff sense and what will not break themes and or totally mitigate weaknesses built into themes. For instance, in a gunline list like Winds of Death, I expected minions who have ranged weapons. In Heavy Metal I expected Jack Marshalls and Jr Warcasters, follow? It makes no sense when nearly every theme has access to all possible mercs for a faction. Why? Why even build themes to have restrictions if you're going to do that? Just build them so that only what you want in a theme generates free points or benefits from theme rules, but everything is available. I accept it, I just don't get it.
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Post by ankiseth on Sept 30, 2017 3:25:27 GMT
I think Mercs would get crazy messy if themes were more precise. The mechanism that matters is the fact that Mercs don’t contribute to nor do they benefit from themes. So in a lot of cases, taking Mercs means you’re paying a premium for them since they’re not contributing toward a free solo.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Sept 30, 2017 3:53:50 GMT
Does anyone else think it's weird that EVERY theme now has access to mercs/minions. Regardless of how fundamentally restrictive the theme? And not just access to some but to all(with the evident exception of Khador?)? Seems strange that lists built on "Only Jacks" can take merc units. Also I expect Rhupert to be everywhere. Yes. This goes directly against what (at least to my recollection) Pagani and, by extension, PP said when CID first looked at mercs being in themes. After the uproar, it was stated the idea was being shelved for now, and what mercs are allowed in which theme would be on a case-by-case basis, with 3 themes being provided (one with very generous merc allowance, one restricted mercs, one no mercs). Frankly, I still find the idea of unrestricted (or nearly) access to mercs in themes to be awful, both from a balance stand-point, and a fluff stand-point (which honestly bothers me more). But perhaps even more frustrating is how it reflects yet another case where what PP said just a little while ago is now shown to be either completely false, or at best a half-truth. I could forgive a lot if they would just be consistent, but instead we keep getting "Skorne is fine/Skorne needs emergency balancing," "out-of-theme will remain a viable option/theme-lists is the expected play", "cards with each model so can play without warroom/no longer printing cards, expect everyone to use our app."
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Sept 30, 2017 4:01:28 GMT
Another thing guys is the makeda cats list is about to start killing everyone Haha. You are on the mark. I didn't know the details of the Praetorian theme before it dropped, but hot damn I love it. I can dovetail my list almost directly in to theme, and get a free Rhadiem and two Tyrants to boot. I can use either +2SPD and Mortitheurge Tough, or Tyrant Tough and Puppet Strings. I love it. Sorry: Got twisted what the Tyrants do. Haven't put one on the table in a while. They give the SPD boost to the list, not much more. But, it two more units for scenario, and the Tyrant himself is kinda beefy on the charge. Perhaps Pathfinder is useful on Makeda2 on a blue moon.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 30, 2017 4:45:39 GMT
Also no free Rhadeim. Command attachments (Praetorian Swordsmen, Karax and Vorkesh) and TyComms only.
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