|
Post by streetpizza on Oct 10, 2017 12:49:10 GMT
Just give everybody similar tools. I'd take a 5 point 4 focus Scrutator Junior with Defenders Ward and Immolation. Really? In what world has multiple faction gaming ever required that everybody have the same set of tools. The Jr. is a neat feature of Cygnar. No need to replicate that over here and if that's what you want I suggest you go don the blue instead. I'd much rather PP put their effort into developing new and different things for Protectorate rather than copy and paste over the features of other factions. Isn't that what this thread started off as anyway?
|
|
doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
|
Post by doopsie on Oct 10, 2017 14:49:22 GMT
Just give everybody similar tools. I'd take a 5 point 4 focus Scrutator Junior with Defenders Ward and Immolation. Really? In what world has multiple faction gaming ever required that everybody have the same set of tools. The Jr. is a neat feature of Cygnar. No need to replicate that over here and if that's what you want I suggest you go don the blue instead. I'd much rather PP put their effort into developing new and different things for Protectorate rather than copy and paste over the features of other factions. Isn't that what this thread started off as anyway? Ironic, isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Oct 10, 2017 19:02:38 GMT
Just give everybody similar tools. I'd take a 5 point 4 focus Scrutator Junior with Defenders Ward and Immolation. Really? In what world has multiple faction gaming ever required that everybody have the same set of tools. The Jr. is a neat feature of Cygnar. No need to replicate that over here and if that's what you want I suggest you go don the blue instead. I'd much rather PP put their effort into developing new and different things for Protectorate rather than copy and paste over the features of other factions. Isn't that what this thread started off as anyway? I said "similar" not "same". I'd like PP to put effort into developing new and cool things for Protectorate's Denial+Fire+anti-magic identity, but they seem incapable of doing that.
|
|
|
Post by c0deb1ue on Oct 10, 2017 20:16:57 GMT
Really? In what world has multiple faction gaming ever required that everybody have the same set of tools. The Jr. is a neat feature of Cygnar. No need to replicate that over here and if that's what you want I suggest you go don the blue instead. I'd much rather PP put their effort into developing new and different things for Protectorate rather than copy and paste over the features of other factions. Isn't that what this thread started off as anyway? Ironic, isn't it? Especially as the irony is both ways...
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 10, 2017 20:19:57 GMT
Really? In what world has multiple faction gaming ever required that everybody have the same set of tools. The Jr. is a neat feature of Cygnar. No need to replicate that over here and if that's what you want I suggest you go don the blue instead. I'd much rather PP put their effort into developing new and different things for Protectorate rather than copy and paste over the features of other factions. Isn't that what this thread started off as anyway? I said "similar" not "same". I'd like PP to put effort into developing new and cool things for Protectorate's Denial+Fire+anti-magic identity, but they seem incapable of doing that. Then why are you so mad when other factions get "similar" tools? Kallus 2 is "similar" Horgle is "similar". They are clearly not exactly the same. So where's the hardship? Reconcile your wants/complaints Either you want everyone to have a Junior-like option with <defense tech> on a stick. Or you don't want to farm concepts from other factions. Either you want only every faction to have <element> strengths and weaknesses. Or you want ONE faction to have ONE elemental strengths and make everyone else suffer it. Either you want special new content for your faction or you want to hate the faceless manufacturer who isn't here to refute you.
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 10, 2017 20:21:12 GMT
Especially as the irony is both ways... I fail to see how...
|
|
|
Post by c0deb1ue on Oct 10, 2017 22:36:24 GMT
Especially as the irony is both ways... I fail to see how... both sides of the argument have swapped positions.
|
|
|
Post by Cryptix on Oct 11, 2017 1:00:30 GMT
Boop. I'm watching you.
|
|
|
Post by W0lfBane on Oct 11, 2017 3:16:22 GMT
both sides of the argument have swapped positions. Swapping positions is a good way to put yourself in other peoples shoes
|
|
|
Post by c0deb1ue on Oct 11, 2017 11:04:49 GMT
both sides of the argument have swapped positions. Swapping positions is a good way to put yourself in other peoples shoes Agreed. So what we want is the super easy design task of individual/new concepts within factions to create identity, while not creating rules bloat and not just copying what other factions do but still wanting each faction to have access to a variety of similar game styles/options. I just feel sorry for PP.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Oct 11, 2017 20:39:22 GMT
I said "similar" not "same". I'd like PP to put effort into developing new and cool things for Protectorate's Denial+Fire+anti-magic identity, but they seem incapable of doing that. Then why are you so mad when other factions get "similar" tools? Kallus 2 is "similar" Horgle is "similar". They are clearly not exactly the same. So where's the hardship? Reconcile your wants/complaints Either you want everyone to have a Junior-like option with <defense tech> on a stick. Or you don't want to farm concepts from other factions. Either you want only every faction to have <element> strengths and weaknesses. Or you want ONE faction to have ONE elemental strengths and make everyone else suffer it. Either you want special new content for your faction or you want to hate the faceless manufacturer who isn't here to refute you. Those aren't mutually exclusive you know except for the middle one. You're also hideously misconstruing my argument. Kallus2 and Horgol2 being so heavily fire themed and have good fire synergies takes away from Protectorate's identity. Other factions getting non-character juniors doesn't take away from Cygnar's identity. Dward on a stick wouldn't take away from Cygnar's identity. It's not an equivalent thing.
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Oct 11, 2017 20:47:30 GMT
Actually GT, if we got a junior with dward I'd expect this same thread to pop up in the cygnar forums. Who among us would NOT take him with a redeemer in every list feasible?
|
|
doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
|
Post by doopsie on Oct 11, 2017 21:38:34 GMT
Yeah, no GT. You cannot simultaneously complain that PP is robbing Protectorate of its faction identity while asking for a better version of a solo found only in one faction, and expect to be taken seriously.
Frankly, the entire argument of "losing faction identity" is absurd to me. You don't really care about faction identity, you just want your new shinies to be biggest and best. You've even stated previously that the problem with Kallus2 and Horgol2 is that they "do fire better than Protectorate's fire casters." Not that they do fire (taking our "identity"). But they do it better.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Oct 11, 2017 21:56:21 GMT
Clearly you guys aren't really interested in a honest dialogue.
If anything, a junior with defensive buff on a stick is more inline with Protectorate's identity than Cygnar's. We're supposed to be the synergy/buff stacking faction. Dward on a stick would line up perfectly with that.
And if really just wanted all out stuff to be the best in general, I wouldn't be harping about Horgol and Kallus. They're underperformers in their factions, so if I was just interested in making protectorate broken op I wouldn't be wanting anything to do with them. So clearly your assertion doesn't hold water. You also clearly aren't paying attention since my complaints regarding these guys is both that they do fire and that they do fire better. I'm not just harping on the ''doing it better'' part.
I also would not expect this hypothetical junior to always show up. He'd be at minimum 12 points because he has to bring a jack. 16 points if you bring that Redeemer. It's a good package, but a lot of lists wouldn't fit him in with that point cost. We'd be less able to fit it in easily than Cygnar does with a junior+charger.
|
|
doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
|
Post by doopsie on Oct 11, 2017 23:31:49 GMT
I am interested in an honest dialogue. I welcome an honest dialogue with open arms. I just haven't seen one.
It is dishonest to whine and wail about how Protectorate is no longer the "denial faction" when we still have more ways to say "can't do that" than any other faction. It is dishonest to whine and wail about how Protectorate is no longer the "fire faction" when we still have more tools to spread and use fire than any other faction. It is dishonest to whine and wail about how Protectorate is no longer a "synergy faction" because another faction is more dependent upon synergy than we. It is dishonest to whine and wail about Protectorate losing the parts that make it unique, while at the same time asking for the things that make other factions unique. It is dishonest to whine and wail about how Privateer hates Protectorate because a single caster in the new faction has, for strong thematic reasons, a lot of Protectorate tricks.
But what's the point? This argument comes up every couple weeks, and stupid things always get said, and all that happens is I lose a little bit more faith in these forums.
|
|