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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 26, 2017 15:41:48 GMT
So I was watching the WTC stream, Semi Final, England Lions vs Germany Lorely, one of the games was Haley 3 vs Zerkova 1. The German player ended up winning after 7 turns of what looked like a grindy as hell match. Which got me thinking about whether you could just play Haley deliberately to either grind out 7 turns of attrition, or just try and clock your opponent.
The list I came up with is:
Haley 3 - Thorn - Ironclad
Finn (free) Buster (free) Buster (free)
Alexia 1 Max Infantry - CA Max Commandoes - CA - 3 x WA Trencher Mechanics
Blockhouse
The basic idea is to bring back at least 1+d3 trencher models a turn (probably 2 or 3 +d3 on feat turn), combined with churning out risen just grind the enemy down. The Trenches are also great for hiding the various Haley's (def 22 anyone?). The mechanics were originally Ragman, but fixing the Blockhouse seems obnoxious.
what do you guys think?
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Post by snarlyyow on Sept 26, 2017 16:08:49 GMT
It might work. I don't know. You'll have to play some games and see.
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 26, 2017 17:54:59 GMT
The Blockhouse is FA 2, so I'm pretty excited to try it and/or see it happen. I was thinking of this list: conflictchamber.com/#c1201b_-0FeS9g9g9Aam9uie9U9V9U9VioioCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Gravediggers (Haley 3) Major Prime Victoria Haley [+25] - Grenadier [9] - Grenadier [9] - Thorn [13] Captain Maxwell Finn [0(6)] Ragman [4] Trench Buster [0(5)] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [0(5)] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [5] Trencher Blockhouse [14] Trencher Blockhouse [14] 2 d3 + 1 or 2 grunts per turn and up to 3 on Feat turn, plus they are all tough and can drop smoke bombs to screen the officer and sniper who you can't revive. I think it'll be the king of jamming. Thorn will be very critical, though, so Haley Past can take out high armor targets.
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Post by chewie on Sept 26, 2017 17:58:10 GMT
It feel like this list has a similar "question" that Ghost Fleet asks: Can you deal with recurring infantry shooting you incessantly. I worry that the list falls apart against lists that have teched against Ghost Fleet. Thoughts?
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 26, 2017 18:06:29 GMT
It feel like this list has a similar "question" that Ghost Fleet asks: Can you deal with recurring infantry shooting you incessantly. I worry that the list falls apart against lists that have teched against Ghost Fleet. Thoughts? Absolutely, and that is also my fear. The list will fall apart to ones that can remove a whole unit in a turn (Throne of Everblight comes to mind, and the Storm Strider if it ges lucky on leaps). It will also struggle against stuff that will get behind the front lines and take out your heavy hitters. The one nice thing is that it doesn't care about RFP on the leader. Even if they kill the Officer and Sniper, the wording of the rules for Haley3 and the Blockhouse are that it returns Grunts to play in the unit. It does not depend on there being a leader to recur them. RFP still prevents you from reviving those grunts, though.
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Post by snarlyyow on Sept 26, 2017 19:18:57 GMT
It feel like this list has a similar "question" that Ghost Fleet asks: Can you deal with recurring infantry shooting you incessantly. I worry that the list falls apart against lists that have teched against Ghost Fleet. Thoughts? Absolutely, and that is also my fear. The list will fall apart to ones that can remove a whole unit in a turn (Throne of Everblight comes to mind, and the Storm Strider if it ges lucky on leaps). It will also struggle against stuff that will get behind the front lines and take out your heavy hitters. The one nice thing is that it doesn't care about RFP on the leader. Even if they kill the Officer and Sniper, the wording of the rules for Haley3 and the Blockhouse are that it returns Grunts to play in the unit. It does not depend on there being a leader to recur them. RFP still prevents you from reviving those grunts, though. Yeah. There's not a lot of RFP in the game in general. ANd kitting yourself to RFP 10 or 20 dudes is really difficult. Especially when they're all DEF15/DEF17/DEF19 with tough.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 26, 2017 19:21:40 GMT
It feel like this list has a similar "question" that Ghost Fleet asks: Can you deal with recurring infantry shooting you incessantly. I worry that the list falls apart against lists that have teched against Ghost Fleet. Thoughts? Unless they have massed RFP I don't think it will be too much of a problem. Anti ghost fleet lists often rely on just scalpel RFPing the leader, but as already pointed out, losing the leader does not stop the recursion in this instance. Also if you are cagey about placement you should never lose whole units
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Post by chewie on Sept 26, 2017 19:24:41 GMT
Unless they have massed RFP I don't think it will be too much of a problem. Anti ghost fleet lists often rely on just scalpel RFPing the leader, but as already pointed out, losing the leader does not stop the recursion in this instance. Also if you are cagey about placement you should never lose whole units Very valid point. Forgot about that point, haha.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 26, 2017 19:34:55 GMT
The Blockhouse is FA 2, so I'm pretty excited to try it and/or see it happen. I was thinking of this list: conflictchamber.com/#c1201b_-0FeS9g9g9Aam9uie9U9V9U9VioioCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Gravediggers (Haley 3) Major Prime Victoria Haley [+25] - Grenadier [9] - Grenadier [9] - Thorn [13] Captain Maxwell Finn [0(6)] Ragman [4] Trench Buster [0(5)] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [0(5)] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [5] Trencher Blockhouse [14] Trencher Blockhouse [14] 2 d3 + 1 or 2 grunts per turn and up to 3 on Feat turn, plus they are all tough and can drop smoke bombs to screen the officer and sniper who you can't revive. I think it'll be the king of jamming. Thorn will be very critical, though, so Haley Past can take out high armor targets. I am tempted by double infantry instead of one infantry and commandoes, as everyone being dug in seems obnoxious. However that would involve painting another whole unit...emotionally I am not ready!
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 26, 2017 20:17:08 GMT
It feel like this list has a similar "question" that Ghost Fleet asks: Can you deal with recurring infantry shooting you incessantly. I worry that the list falls apart against lists that have teched against Ghost Fleet. Thoughts? Unless they have massed RFP I don't think it will be too much of a problem. Anti ghost fleet lists often rely on just scalpel RFPing the leader, but as already pointed out, losing the leader does not stop the recursion in this instance. Also if you are cagey about placement you should never lose whole units There are only a couple lists I'm aware of that can mass RFP and they aren't strong into much. I agree that in most situations, proper placement will prevent you from losing a whole unit in a turn, but that stupid Throne and the Strider have 4 inch ranges on their main infantry churning mechanics. It's really, really hard to keep a full unit of trenchers in formation AND keep them more than 4 inches from each pair of guys. The only way I can usually pull it off is by throwing a couple out front as a sacrifice, but if they can clear them out easily, it's then easier to charge the rest of them and remove them. I think with Dig In/Def 17 that makes it quite a harder proposition for many things to clear them, especially the throne since it can't boost, but E-Leaps will devastate trenchers in the mirror. Good thing no one in my meta plays Cygnar, but they do mostly play armor stacking, and Trenchers aren't going to be cracking armor any time soon, except with Siege2 to some degree.
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 27, 2017 6:14:15 GMT
Newsflash: They nerfed Forward Deployment to be +6" from your Deployment zone, so 13" going first and 16" going second. This means it can no longer shoot into deployment lines on turn 1, auto miss and drift on a 3, 4, or 5 and knock stuff down top of 1. It also would not threaten the back 2 inches of circular zones or opponent flags. I think it is still very strong on certain scenarios and the recursion is still good, but if you're taking two you basically have to go second or else both of them may never fire a shot during the game. That risk seems too high to take two of them anymore.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Sept 27, 2017 6:41:47 GMT
Newsflash: They nerfed Forward Deployment to be +6" from your Deployment zone, so 13" going first and 16" going second. This means it can no longer shoot into deployment lines on turn 1, auto miss and drift on a 3, 4, or 5 and knock stuff down top of 1. It also would not threaten the back 2 inches of circular zones or opponent flags. I think it is still very strong on certain scenarios and the recursion is still good, but if you're taking two you basically have to go second or else both of them may never fire a shot during the game. That risk seems too high to take two of them anymore. Shooting and drifting into deployment is very possible with a bunch of models and casters in the game. Also, you don't knock stuff down top of 1 because Quake requires a direct hit. I think that the nerf to deployment range if you go first kills the Blockhouse, it simply isn't relevant in enough of the board.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 27, 2017 8:06:33 GMT
Newsflash: They nerfed Forward Deployment to be +6" from your Deployment zone, so 13" going first and 16" going second. This means it can no longer shoot into deployment lines on turn 1, auto miss and drift on a 3, 4, or 5 and knock stuff down top of 1. It also would not threaten the back 2 inches of circular zones or opponent flags. I think it is still very strong on certain scenarios and the recursion is still good, but if you're taking two you basically have to go second or else both of them may never fire a shot during the game. That risk seems too high to take two of them anymore. I thought the final iteration at the end of CID was just 16" from the back of your board edge, have the official rules for the Blockhouse been revealed?
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Sept 27, 2017 8:36:26 GMT
Newsflash: They nerfed Forward Deployment to be +6" from your Deployment zone, so 13" going first and 16" going second. This means it can no longer shoot into deployment lines on turn 1, auto miss and drift on a 3, 4, or 5 and knock stuff down top of 1. It also would not threaten the back 2 inches of circular zones or opponent flags. I think it is still very strong on certain scenarios and the recursion is still good, but if you're taking two you basically have to go second or else both of them may never fire a shot during the game. That risk seems too high to take two of them anymore. I thought the final iteration at the end of CID was just 16" from the back of your board edge, have the official rules for the Blockhouse been revealed? Blockhouse is in warroom now. I doubt i will use it sadly after the last changes. He was expensive even in the last CID version for what he does IMO.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 27, 2017 8:42:55 GMT
I thought the final iteration at the end of CID was just 16" from the back of your board edge, have the official rules for the Blockhouse been revealed? Blockhouse is in warroom now. I doubt i will use it sadly after the last changes. He was expensive even in the last CID version for what he does IMO. That's lame I don't have access to my Warroom atm, has anything else changed significantly since the end of CID?
cheers
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