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Post by jisidro on Sept 19, 2017 11:52:55 GMT
Nobody plays minions, how do solve that? Allow other more popular faction to take their models as their own. Skorne isn't a popular faction, is it?
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 19, 2017 13:50:30 GMT
Nobody plays minions, how do solve that? Allow other more popular faction to take their models as their own. Skorne isn't a popular faction, is it? Speak for yourself, the Skorne reddit is one of the fastest growing.
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 19, 2017 13:54:46 GMT
I'm going to copy and paste my post in the other thread:
There are a few reasons I think this theme is going to be great that I think people are missing, and they are primarily based on Minion beasts' animi. The most notable ones to me are Rage (pow 21 savages anyone?), Primal (mat 8 and pow 20), Rites of Power (AN ARC NODE) and Elasticity (any of the Morghouls with 2" reach seems fun).
The second super awesome benefit is being able to apply Skorne buffs to minion warbeasts. As an example, the Swamp Horror is kind of meh on its own in minions, but is amazing with +5 str,+3 arm and Rush on Naaresh's feat turn. Being able to give all minion beasts virtually the same buffs as in minions but with an additional +2 str and reliable free charges is a big deal.
Or just throw a bunch of battle boars and savages in a list and go crazy. It's a really good theme.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 19, 2017 13:59:07 GMT
This is how themes should be imho, offering a brand new way to combine and play models is really exciting and allows for creative list building, something a lot of thmese lack. The other theme that looks promising in this way is the Llaelese Resistance. I think it is probably balanced by only allowing (at the current count) 5 warlocks, so the number of possible combos to test are a lot less than if you allowed the whole Skorne bench of warlocks
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Post by Blargaliscious on Sept 19, 2017 14:07:42 GMT
OK, ok, ok, ok, ok.
Now that I have gotten over Morghoul3's "Escorts" enough to type something mildly constructive, I just wanted to post this:
A Drakodile with Enrage from the Beast Handler, Rage from the Wrastler, and Rush from the Gladiator would be interesting, but not enough for me to plop money down. But, if the Dracodile walks on its hind legs and breaths fire, I am buying one of those dumb things faster than you can say "Godzilla."
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 19, 2017 14:08:47 GMT
OK, ok, ok, ok, ok. Now that I have gotten over Morghoul3's "Escorts" enough to type something mildly constructive, I just wanted to post this: A Drakodile with Enrage from the Beast Handler, Rage from the Wrastler, and Rush from the Gladiator would be interesting, but not enough for me to plop money down. But, if the Dracodile walks on its hind legs and breaths fire, I am buying one of those dumb things faster than you can say "Godzilla." Can't do Rage and Rush on the same beast unless it has Rage itself.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 19, 2017 14:10:11 GMT
I'm not really seeing the light spam. Sure, you can get some impressive output on Savages or even Archidons. But we can already do that and see little reason to most of the time (read: outside of the Rhinoman + Birds list, which is frankly silly). Yes, Primal is extremely enticing and I like the ideas with Elasticity and Lucky Shot. But what does it allow us to do that we can't already do? Our faction does have a few problems that demand solutions (mainly Cryx), but this is not it. It's neat and fluffy and all that, but I think that's it.
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 19, 2017 14:12:06 GMT
I'm not really seeing the light spam. Sure, you can get some impressive output on Savages or even Archidons. But we can already do that and see little reason to most of the time (read: outside of the Rhinoman + Birds list, which is frankly silly). Yes, Primal is extremely enticing and I like the ideas with Elasticity and Lucky Shot. But what does it allow us to do that we can't already do? Our faction does have a few problems that demand solutions (mainly Cryx), but this is not it. It's neat and fluffy and all that, but I think that's it. How hard does a savage hit with these other lists?
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 19, 2017 14:14:16 GMT
I honestly have to look that up. A regular Naaresh list has it going to P+S 18 I think. X2 gets it to P+S17 with S+P under feat. I mean, yes, this theme gets to higher numbers, but what for?
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 19, 2017 14:26:06 GMT
I honestly have to look that up. A regular Naaresh list has it going to P+S 18 I think. X2 gets it to P+S17 with S+P under feat. I mean, yes, this theme gets to higher numbers, but what for? For being 7 pt heavy killers, that's what for! At pow 18, you are unlikely to kill even an arm 18 heavy on your own. At pow 21, the odds become much, much better. They also can hit at pow 18 every turn with this theme, as opposed to only during the feat turn. The list should also include a few drakes and kreas as well. Kreas go crazy with Rage and a drake for flank.
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 19, 2017 14:28:22 GMT
Also, the channeling animus is amazing for Xekaar, Morghoul2, and Morghoul3 (although he probably want Marketh more). Even Morghoul1 gets some interesting use out of it.
Being able to mix animi on pigs and gators is also very cool. Battle boars with 2" reach anyone? Throw in a +2 to hit and damage from mortality and each one will eat a unit.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 19, 2017 14:39:31 GMT
What I dislike about "the Savage Plan" is that it invests a LOT of points into trading up. When you bring obscene amounts of support to trade up, you're not really trading up anymore. We are talking Enrage + an animus + a feat to get to this magic 21 (or 20 with MAT8 which I consider to be vastly superior). That's a lot of effort to do something our faction already accomplishes with reasonable ease. It adds a lot of costs and a lot of ifs and only solves one very specific problem that the meta is evolving away from. Now the idea of turning utility/ranged beasts into capable melee beasts sounds worth pursuing. Maybe a Morghoul2 list with 2x Pigtrenchers, a few Spitters, a Krea and a Battle Boar. Season to taste. You'd have a list that shoots really well, is itself incredibly resillient to shooting and can deal with whatever closes in. I like this idea a lot. Is there any good RfP or Grievous in Minions? That would sweeten the deal even more. Edit: There is! Slaughterhousers. And with Morg2's feat you can even position them to get to whatever you need to RfP (Pirate Leaders) next turn. conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0H3Zjijeje6w6w6L6L0Ofl0Ofl0S5U5SSkorne Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Disciples of Agony (Pre-Release) (Morghoul 2) Lord Assassin Morghoul [+29] - Battle Boar [7] - Ironback Spitter [15] - Ironback Spitter [15] Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [0(4)] Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [0(4)] Paingiver Task Master [0(3)] Paingiver Task Master [3] Farrow Brigands (max) [15] - Farrow Brigand Warlord [4] Farrow Brigands (max) [15] - Farrow Brigand Warlord [4] Farrow Slaughterhousers [11] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Paingiver Bloodrunners [9] I'm not sure this is better than just playing Winds, but it certainly seems like an option.
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 19, 2017 14:53:38 GMT
What I dislike about "the Savage Plan" is that it invests a LOT of points into trading up. When you bring obscene amounts of support to trade up, you're not really trading up anymore. We are talking Enrage + an animus + a feat to get to this magic 21 (or 20 with MAT8 which I consider to be vastly superior). That's a lot of effort to do something our faction already accomplishes with reasonable ease. It adds a lot of costs and a lot of ifs and only solves one very specific problem that the meta is evolving away from. Now the idea of turning utility/ranged beasts into capable melee beasts sounds worth pursuing. Maybe a Morghoul2 list with 2x Pigtrenchers, a few Spitters, a Krea and a Battle Boar. Season to taste. You'd have a list that shoots really well, is itself incredibly resillient to shooting and can deal with whatever closes in. I like this idea a lot. Is there any good RfP or Grievous in Minions? That would sweeten the deal even more. Edit: There is! Slaughterhousers. And with Morg2's feat you can even position them to get to whatever you need to RfP (Pirate Leaders) next turn. conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0H3Zjijeje6w6w6L6L0Ofl0Ofl0S5U5SSkorne Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Disciples of Agony (Pre-Release) (Morghoul 2) Lord Assassin Morghoul [+29] - Battle Boar [7] - Ironback Spitter [15] - Ironback Spitter [15] Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [0(4)] Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [0(4)] Paingiver Task Master [0(3)] Paingiver Task Master [3] Farrow Brigands (max) [15] - Farrow Brigand Warlord [4] Farrow Brigands (max) [15] - Farrow Brigand Warlord [4] Farrow Slaughterhousers [11] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Paingiver Bloodrunners [9] I'm not sure this is better than just playing Winds, but it certainly seems like an option. Now you're getting it! That list looks like so much fun! Personally I'm excited for arm 17-20 Swamp Horrors, those things will be insanely annoying to kill.
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Post by jisidro on Sept 19, 2017 16:02:24 GMT
Skorne isn't a popular faction, is it? Speak for yourself, the Skorne reddit is one of the fastest growing.
Legit question no jab intended.
My personal opinion is that if I want to play Red Gold and Khorne then I'm playing a different game.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 19, 2017 17:32:50 GMT
Well Skorne is nothing like Khorne. And mine aren't even red.
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