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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Sept 16, 2017 0:46:00 GMT
Carapace DJ takes an average 5 damage from two boosted Stormwall shots. This is dumb. Now it will be harder to kill Cryx at range than Khador. Two shots from one of the best guns in the game barely scratch it. Don't use guns? #cygnarbalance You laugh now, but when Azreal is doing dice minus four to a 10 point Slayer, then you'll see. (Or the Bolt Thrower doing 3.5 damage, on average, to a jack 1 point cheaper than it)
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Post by mindwormjim on Sept 16, 2017 0:50:40 GMT
I actually wish all themes just had powerful effects like this instead of giving free points. This list grants both and is going to be a miserable jack mountain [...] Also, why do some themes go through CID and others just get dropped as-is? My understanding is that Privateer's original plan was to release each theme in order as they and the appropriate models went through CID. However, they decided to release all in-progress themes at once so that models didn't go a year without fitting into any themes (since that would basically remove those models from play). Theoretically the themes being previewed in Insiders are part of a large batch of placeholders until they can get around to putting everything through CID.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 16, 2017 0:52:32 GMT
Bane witch Desecrator spam ftw. Goreshade1 might be better for Desecrator spam. Lamentation makes spellcasting difficult, & Shadowmancer adds another layer of shooting protection that lasts all game. G1 definitely has game, but bane witch has parasite vs having to preserve and maneuver goreshades banes. Desecrators are only pow 17 so they're really going to need an armor debuff to do good work against heavies.
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 16, 2017 1:08:39 GMT
Don't use guns? #cygnarbalance You laugh now, but when Azreal is doing dice minus four to a 10 point Slayer, then you'll see. (Or the Bolt Thrower doing 3.5 damage, on average, to a jack 1 point cheaper than it) Talk to me when a Marauder isn't dice -1 vs it at the same cost or a Hammersmith isn't getting a free extra attack at straight dice versus it.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Sept 16, 2017 1:11:58 GMT
You laugh now, but when Azreal is doing dice minus four to a 10 point Slayer, then you'll see. (Or the Bolt Thrower doing 3.5 damage, on average, to a jack 1 point cheaper than it) Talk to me when a Marauder isn't dice -1 vs it at the same cost or a Hammersmith isn't getting a free extra attack at straight dice versus it. Yes, omit that the Marauder and Hammersmith are SPEED FOUR! the speed 6 slayer outthreats them, and is more durable at range.
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 16, 2017 1:16:26 GMT
Talk to me when a Marauder isn't dice -1 vs it at the same cost or a Hammersmith isn't getting a free extra attack at straight dice versus it. Yes, omit that the Marauder and Hammersmith are SPEED FOUR! the speed 6 slayer outthreats them, and is more durable at range. would you rather I use the light that wrecks its cortex in one round or the heavy that hits harder than it does for +1 point? Maybe the various forms of marksman and sniper to continue to snipe arms? Oh, I know, lets not forget about the various effects that work on hits and not damage. I'm not saying the themes bad, but Cryx continues to be Cygnar natural's predator, this is not new.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 16, 2017 1:17:35 GMT
Don't use guns? #cygnarbalance You laugh now, but when Azreal is doing dice minus four to a 10 point Slayer, then you'll see. (Or the Bolt Thrower doing 3.5 damage, on average, to a jack 1 point cheaper than it) Carapace doesn't stop that Azrael crit smite or bolt thrower thunderbolt. Also; swordsmen.
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Post by gobber on Sept 16, 2017 1:41:40 GMT
Boosted hunter shots averaging 2 damage to slayers is amusing though I need to rebuild my slayer/seether horde...
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 16, 2017 2:39:27 GMT
I don't feel like the theme is overpowered. Just real good. But that's just a feeling, I want to see it on the table. I also feel like this list will often have problems with Anvil type lists. You'll have a hard time fueling that many jacks and debuffing simultaneously.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Denny3 in conjunction with this theme. She seems like a big winner here. Her alpha should be crushing.
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benkei
Junior Strategist
Posts: 244
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Post by benkei on Sept 16, 2017 5:35:36 GMT
Yes, omit that the Marauder and Hammersmith are SPEED FOUR! the speed 6 slayer outthreats them, and is more durable at range. would you rather I use the light that wrecks its cortex in one round or the heavy that hits harder than it does for +1 point? Maybe the various forms of marksman and sniper to continue to snipe arms? Oh, I know, lets not forget about the various effects that work on hits and not damage. I'm not saying the themes bad, but Cryx continues to be Cygnar natural's predator, this is not new. Problem is Cryx is EVERYBODY's natural predator. It's mk2 all over again.
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Post by Bomma on Sept 16, 2017 5:53:32 GMT
Dark Industries seems really good, Ghost Fleet, Dark Host.. I don't begrudge other factions getting cool things. It is great when they do, people get excited, lists look good and play good, cool things are cool..
BUT
Why aren't all the themes balanced across all factions?
How do these in just Cryx (not even looking at Khador, Cygnar) compare to Trolls, Circle and of course other factions that have poor themes? (my main two factions, sorry a tiny bit salty..)
B.
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benkei
Junior Strategist
Posts: 244
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Post by benkei on Sept 16, 2017 8:44:51 GMT
Well, talking about Khador, take a look at the las released themes (MoW and Greylords) and compare then with this (then crey)
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Post by Aegis on Sept 16, 2017 8:54:12 GMT
Carapace DJ takes an average 5 damage from two boosted Stormwall shots. This is dumb. Now it will be harder to kill Cryx at range than Khador. Two shots from one of the best guns in the game barely scratch it. Don't use guns? #cygnarbalance Honestly, personally I don't care. I usually prefer melee or combined arms lists anyway. That said, I'm a little worried about the number of very hard counters to gunlines PP are introducing recently. Gunlines are a legitimate type of list and shouldn't be made totally impossible to play. Anyway, Carapace is a much better ability to give around than others. At least it just reduces ranged damage instead of trying to make guns totally useless like other benefits (like massive shield guard spam or ubiquitus cloudwalls).
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Post by lyrael on Sept 16, 2017 12:04:04 GMT
I would argue that this is the new gold standard for jack themes.
With Shield Guard, something is still taking the damage. With this, its just straight up less damage, and free points... and a merc unit and a merc solo.
I'm happy for Cryx, although I will be happy when they look at the jack/beast themes that aren't nearly as good as this, and bring them up to par. Everyone should have nice stuff.
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Post by tesoe on Sept 16, 2017 16:21:26 GMT
Don't use guns? #cygnarbalance Honestly, personally I don't care. I usually prefer melee or combined arms lists anyway. That said, I'm a little worried about the number of very hard counters to gunlines PP are introducing recently. Gunlines are a legitimate type of list and shouldn't be made totally impossible to play. Anyway, Carapace is a much better ability to give around than others. At least it just reduces ranged damage instead of trying to make guns totally useless like other benefits (like massive shield guard spam or ubiquitus cloudwalls). If PP doesn't introduce things to keep gunline in check then they will take over the game. Same reason they did in real life. Guns naturally out threat melee. So they have to create a reason to take melee. Either make guns suck, make melee over powered, or introduce something that limits the effectiveness of guns.
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